Hi all,

New user here, but been lurking for some time. Thanks in advance to all the active members here as your posts were very helpful in making my decision to buy a new F-Type.

TLR
I bought a new F-Type 400 Sport (2018 model) in February from Edmonton, Alberta and had it shipped to Vancouver, BC (Canada). Car was shipped and I received the car in Vancouver the first week of March with an active check engine light. After three trips to the dealer in March (one each weekend) getting O2 sensors replaced, they discovered a permanent misfire that they haven't been able to solve. Tech has advised a new engine which is either already approved by Jaguar or in the process. Car has less than 1000 kms on it, most of which was driving to and from the dealer for service or from before delivery. Should I accept the new engine? Do I have any other options?


New member, longer version:

I spent almost one year going back and forth with my dealer trying to get an allocation for a manual V6S. The only manual they had available during that time was a used V6S convertible, in exactly the same color combo as the BMW Z4M roadster that I already own. Eventually Jaguar told my dealer "stop asking, you aren't getting an allocation for a manual." and then the announcement came out soon after that the manual was discontinued.
There are very few cars that make me feel something that are in a price range I can afford. I debated between a manual M2 comp or an F-Type auto, and my mind was made up when I found a new 400 Sport F-Type online for a reasonable price. I mean, just look at it!



I flew out to Edmonton on February 20, checked out the car (couldn't drive it due to snow and summer tires) but started it up. The car was new, paint was in decent shape (some swirls I'd correct later) and quite fully loaded. I worked through the numbers, settled on the details and bought the car. Then the long wait for it to be shipped out to Vancouver.

The car arrived on March 5th and I found an excuse to duck out of work early to go pick it up. The expectation was to go, pay registration and insurance and drive off. Unfortunately, the car needed an out-of-province inspection despite being new (and against what the dealer had told me). No worries, should be easy! But it wasn't.
- The receiving dealership needed to get someone to come pick up the car for the inspection as they didn't have anyone there that could do it.
- When the inspector arrived and fired up the car, the check engine light was on. Off he went and did his thing, bringing the car back about two hours later.
- I was told there were codes for a misfire and some cat code failures, but that he cleared the codes and hoped maybe it was a battery issue. I was told to monitor to see if the light comes back on, and if so take it to the Jaguar dealership.
- The light came on during my drive home.
- I called the Jaguar service department, explained the light and was told that I could still drive the car but to go easy on it and bring it in on March 15th (the earliest time available).

1st Service Appointment (March 15 - March 16)
- Brought the car in, received a decent loaner Evoke for the day and near the end of the day was told they had read the codes and the car just needed to replace an O2 sensor. This wouldn't affect driving the car, and to bring it back next weekend as they needed to order the parts. They also needed to do a software update and replace the backup battery. They needed the car overnight, so I was able to get my car back Saturday afternoon.
- I also confirmed with the service adviser that the car was pre-broken in from Jaguar as advised by the dealer I bought from in Edmonton. I explained that I tend to be overly safe/careful with my cars, and wanted to make sure any break-in period was followed. I was told that it was indeed true the engines are broken in, and was told there was no need to be overly safe. It would be fine to bring up the RPM past 4.5k as long as the car was well warmed up.

So, after a hour drive to really warm up the car, with about 700 kms on the car I brought the rpm up slowly (manual mode) and at 5k rpm the engine light started to flash. I slowed down and the car was shaking (misfire). Pulled over and shut the car off. Called the service department, and was advised that it was likely due to the sensor, the car was still driveable but just go easy until I get the sensor changed. To be fair, I did restart the car and it was back to its normal self, no misfire. At this point I'm nervous but trying to stay positive.


2nd Service Appointment (March 23)
- Brought the car back in and had the O2s replaced (turned out it needed both bank 1 and bank 2 sensors replaced). Got the car back end-of-day, and got to try out a Velar P380 for the day.

Alright, so time for the experiment to see if I can reproduce the issue without the O2 sensor failure. I went for another nice long drive, found a road where I could safely bring the rpm up but also with somewhere to pull over if needed. Sure enough, right at 5k rpm again the engine light started to flash and the misfire returned. I pulled over, waited a few mins and restarted the car. It was back to feeling normal, but on the drive home the check engine light permanently came back on. I sent the service adviser and email, and he asked me to bring it back in the upcoming weekend. I decided not to drive the car during the week since it was sunny and used the other car.

At this point I did a bit of forum research and was hoping the issue was with a failed fuel injector putting in too much fuel.


3rd Service Appointment (March 30)
- Dropped off the car Saturday morning and didn't hear anything back all day. Monday, once again no response. They've been really understanding so far, so I've been trying not to pressure them. This morning, I finally got a reply.
"Unfortunately we have found miss on the left bank of the engine – cannot get rid of them – there seems to be something internal of the engine that is not right. Technical assistance has asked us to order a new engine for the car."

After a follow-up call, my service adviser mentioned that based on the codes they were getting and their investigation, it was determined that the engine would need to be replaced and that it was already approved (not sure if this is by JLR HQ or not, waiting to find that out).

So, now I am making payments on a car that I've barely driven. I've been told it could be 1-3 months for the replacement. Has anyone ever had an experience like this and if so, please let me know your advice.

- Should I be worried about a resale value hit (non-matching numbers)?
- Will this fix be reasonably straight forward, or should I expect all sorts of knock-on issues once the engine has been replaced? I can't imagine this is straight forward.
- Should I be pushing back on accepting the engine replacement and expect a refund? (reading online the answer seems fuzzy here in Canada, but I can't find any examples with a car this expensive)

Any other thoughts? Seems I'll be missing out on the nice summer months of my new car, and there's nothing I can do about it. It's certainly taken the excitement out of what is by far the biggest purchase I've ever made.

At least the loaner is a Velar P380 HSE with massaging seats?

One thing that I will say is that my service adviser has been really good so far, and seems to really want me to have a good experience and wants to get the car back to perfect for me.

Anyways, that's my intro to this forum. Nice to meet you all finally.

 

First, Welcome and congratulations (somewhat). Sorry to hear that this is your first experience. My personal opinion is to have them take the car back and get a different one. Not sure how the laws work in Canada, but I don't think an engine replacement is how I'd like to remember my car. What are your options legally and for a different car? I would think in 1-3 months you could find another car?

 

It looks to me that selling dealer failed to properly do pre-delivery inspection. I would contact JLR and ask for a new car as there is no guarantee that your car could be fixed to as-new state even with a new engine in any reasonable time.

Insist that they failed to deliver new car to you in a working order.

 

So sorry to hear about this mess.
I agree with the others, in that you should make it known that you WILL NOT ACCEPT THIS CAR. You purchased a new car. It is highly defective. Now they know it so they can keep it and deliver you a car that performs like the F-Type was designed to perform.
Accept nothing less.
Best of luck with this brother.

 

I'm in a very similar boat as you, bought a CPO 16 V6S awd, within a week, got a flashing Check engine light, would shut it off and restart and it would be fine, after some more spirited driving it would come back, this happened a few times before it came on Permentantly, Thought it was a Misfire, turned out to be a blown Cat, this has since Happened to be twice more, and both cats have been replaced and the Muffler has been replaced three times, I've had the car for under 4 months, car has 16k miles on it. Sending a demand letter to the dealer, car is awesome, sounds great, when it works, and looks awesome, but Im scared to drive it or have fun with it. Thinking about getting a Manual OG M2 if I replace it. Car has been in the shop 5-6 times since I've taken delivery, and sadly I got Diesel XE loaners, until last time where I fought for the XE S wagon. like with you my service advisor is great, but the actual Shop is ****, and Can't fix jack...

 

It used to be back in the day where the engine numbers matched up with chassis numbers, and it was a big deal for resale if they didn't match. Those days are long gone. Getting the engine replaced won't devalue the car. If you like everything else about the car, I would just get it replaced and move on. It will probably take some time for the work to complete but it will likely be quicker than finding and shipping another car.

 

I agree with this and would demand another car. Buying a new one with a defective engine from the start is a bad omen. Plus, are the technicians at the dealer competent enough to properly do the swap? If not you'll have problems afterwards too. That's why you buy a new vehicle, to not deal with things like this.

 

Perhaps insist either on an F-type loaner, or some money back as you won't have your new car for an extended period. I don't know if this would be considered a lemon in your state, but if they have to take the car back, someone will lose a fair bit of money on it.

 

Getting a new vehicle will contribute to your piece of mind, but if all you can get is a new engine, I would not stroke out over it. Engines come and go. It is a fact of life. A colleague brought home a new 633i on Friday and on Saturday it dumped 7 qts of oil on his parking deck. BMW replaced the engine. End of story. Frankly I would be interest in the nature of the failure. What is causing the mis-fire across the bank, if I read you correctly.

Generally demanding things of automobile manufacturers is not a rewarding technique. If you are not satisfied with what they offer you or what you can negotiate, turn the matter over to your lawyer. Lawyers are paid to make demands and people even automobile manufacturers understand that getting satisfaction is how they get paid.

 

Why would you expect the servicing dealer to provide him an F-type loaner? They did not sell him the car. The customer didn't show any loyalty to the dealer by going somewhere else to purchase the car. He should reach out to corporate & have them pay a couple of his payments.

 

Yes, good point - I lost track of that part. I was thinking perhaps corporate could do that via the dealer.

 

Good luck OP. Wish you can have everything sorted soon.

My car has been doing ok, but my dealer, whom I bought the car brand new from, is not.
From my service/maintenance visits, I got Uber (base version) 4 times, Jaguar E-Pace 1 time, and Nissan Altima Sedan (25k mile rental car) 1 time.
My dealer also has a 4 day, 75 mile per day maximum limit for their loaners.

 

Wrongo, bongo. My understanding of the Franchise Agreement, is that each dealer must treat each customer equally other than being allowed to favor their own purchase customers as to timing of service.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice so far. I've opened a case with Jaguar and should be contacted in the next 2.5 business days. I'll update this thread when I have more information.

 

Given the symptoms, the only reason a complete engine replacement should be needed is if the rings on one of the pistons went bad and it's blowing blue smoke. They're just too lazy or greedy to diagnose the problem properly before selling a replacement engine. If they're going to make you pay for it, go to an independent shop instead.

 

I didn't dig in, but essentially the response I got was that for anything beyond simple things the Jaguar process under warranty is to just replace the engine. They said the shop will likely never have a real answer as to the exact problem. Regardless of the outcome of my open case, the replacement is covered by warranty.

 

Good to hear.

 

Some dealers, man. I had a 2013 XF 2.0t LEMON. The dealer replaced the motor because they couldn't figure out why it was mis-firing. When they delivered the car back to my wife, it stalled on her on the freeway (dangerous) because they had missed a bunch of wires and hoses on re-installation. Jag gave me 5 grand of hush-money to go away, but the whole experience was awful. Bottom line - I wish I had been as smart as you to post on a forum to get all the great advise that was offered above. Engine replacement is NOT a good solution to the problem.

I hope this helps. Cheers!

Greg

 

Un, if the dealer wants to put it to JLR let them have at it. Better it should come out of the manufacturer than the consumer. The cost of the warranty is included in the sale price of the car. JLR knows exactly to the centime how much they have to charge for the warranty.

 

What does that have to do with what type of substitution of transportation the dealer provides? Remember the dealer pays for the courtesy cars not Jaguar.