F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards

F Type R, exhaust noise and pops.

 
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:24 PM
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Default F Type R, exhaust noise and pops.

Just got the car (2015 F Type R coupe) back from the dealer, they have updated the PCM CPLA 12B684 YF and cleared codes. The car is muted, almost all of the pops and crackling gone. They did try to run the software JTB495 to correct the issue as but the car would not accept the software, the reading was all softwares and up to date. According to the dealer all the new F Type Rs with 2017 PCM update have a more muted exhaust noise as required by federal law (BS).
I am going back there tomorrow to the dealer, the dealer is going to run the new software on a brand new new 2017 F type R and we will compare the exhaust pops and crackling to find out if the issues is related to the new software or could it be faulty valves, diffusers, etc
Any advice much appreciate. Has anyone else had a similar issue lately?
 
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 550R View Post
According to the dealer all the new F Type Rs with 2017 PCM update have a more muted exhaust noise as required by federal law (BS).
Total BS. The federal standard for noise is a very specific, very defeatable test. It's a wide open throttle test along a straight line course with microphones positioned an exact distance away from the vehicle. Many manufactures set up a hole in their engine calibrations that only can be triggered while doing the specific sequence of events required for the test; so vehicles that easily break the db requirement can pass by just cutting power significantly and thus reducing noise.

This is an internally validated test, and you only have to pass once, so really the likelihood of Jaguar cutting down on pops for this is basically zero. Especially since decel isn't even measured in the test.
 
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:21 PM
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I really do doubt its anything to do with a new PCM update as this is identical to what happened to my car in early 2016 after the K309 PCM update.

It may be that your VIN falls just outside of the JTB495 specified range, the computer is saying no update required because of this - however your car is still impacted.

Hope you can get it sorted out, drove me nuts for ages with the dealer not believing there was anything wrong with the car, telling me I was imagining it up until the point Jaguar released the update - then all of a sudden the dealer believed me. If it wasn't fixed I probably would have ended up selling the car as hated the quieter soundtrack.
 
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 550R View Post
According to the dealer all the new F Type Rs with 2017 PCM update have a more muted exhaust noise as required by federal law (BS)
As you know, I was shoveled the same BS from my dealer regarding my '17R--their email response below--although I find it interesting they told you the same thing about MY'17 Rs, hmmm...:
I heard back from the Jaguar engineers today. You were 100% correct when you stated that your 2016 was louder than your 2017, unfortunately it was done on purpose. So the engineer stated that starting in 2017, they tuned down the exhaust due to the majority of people stated that the vehicle was too loud. So Jaguar created a ECM software update that only allowed the one valve to move fully open and the other to only open partially to turn down the noise level. So the people on the forums who are getting their mufflers replaced will actually have the same issue because they already have updated their software. If you would have never looked down the tailpipe then I would have probably never have known this as well, so thank you. Let me know if you have any more questions or concerns. Have a great day.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...design-187697/
 

Last edited by Kief; 09-20-2017 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 04:03 PM
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Following my previous post,F Type R, exhaust noise and pops- I called Jag CRC once more. They confirmed that the new software update will cause exhaust noise reduction. However I also found out that there is a patch to correct the issue for 2014/15 models (don't know the deals of the patch yet). They asked me to go back to the dealer and ask for the patch, I explained to them that the dealer doesn't have the patch available. This resulted in CRC creating a case #6******. They asked me to make an appointment with the dealer, once the appointment is confirmed call the CRC and provide them with date and time of the appointment. On the day of the appointment CRC will provide the dealer with the necessary software patch to correct the issue. Let's see if it works!
 
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Old 09-20-2017, 04:45 PM
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I would have guessed the 'patch' is the JTB495 that your dealer couldn't load. My invoice shows they did K309B, with no JTB495. May depend on the SDD version which they do.
 
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:10 PM
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I am almost certain the patch will be the same one that was applied - and fixed - my car.

Am guessing itís a software compliance thing - update process checks the VIN number for the car, VIN isnít in the specified range for the patch therefore patch doesnít apply. Will probably need to be manually overridden somehow, or Jaguar will need to extend the VIN range for the software update compliance check.

Reason I say this - when the dealer applied mine I asked for more details on what the patch does - the tech admitted he had no idea, all he does is attach the SDD to the car and it tells him what software needs applying - he then starts the process and leaves it for a few hours until itís complete. Pretty much all automated and scripted with little to no ability for the human to influence the process.
 
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DJS View Post
I would have guessed the 'patch' is the JTB495 that your dealer couldn't load. My invoice shows they did K309B, with no JTB495. May depend on the SDD version which they do.
+1. Ask the dealer what SDD version they have. It has to be 145.7 or higher for them to apply JTB00495.
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stohlen View Post
Total BS. The federal standard for noise is a very specific, very defeatable test. It's a wide open throttle test along a straight line course with microphones positioned an exact distance away from the vehicle. Many manufactures set up a hole in their engine calibrations that only can be triggered while doing the specific sequence of events required for the test; so vehicles that easily break the db requirement can pass by just cutting power significantly and thus reducing noise.

This is an internally validated test, and you only have to pass once, so really the likelihood of Jaguar cutting down on pops for this is basically zero. Especially since decel isn't even measured in the test.

its my understanding california screwed us. I'm going through the same issue and have been speaking with Jag North America extensively on this. Jag makes all their cars 50 state legal, and they adjusted things to meet CARB regulations.

So pissed about this. I bought a velocity exhaust system to see if I can manage, because I'm seriously considering selling the car.
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ritzy View Post
its my understanding california screwed us. I'm going through the same issue and have been speaking with Jag North America extensively on this. Jag makes all their cars 50 state legal, and they adjusted things to meet CARB regulations.

So pissed about this. I bought a velocity exhaust system to see if I can manage, because I'm seriously considering selling the car.
I still donít believe it. I have read in here the explanation given that the new software update somehow controls the exhaust valves leaving one open and one half closed. Not sure how thatís possible as vacccum controls the valve operation - so there is either vaccum or not and the valve will either open or not accordingly. I donít believe that software can directly influence the degree of opening of the valve. And one valve that is half open wouldnít eradicate all pops and cracks either.

I also read that anyone getting a new muffler would suffer with this. My muffler was replaced 2 months ago with no difference to pops and cracks - of which I get a lot.

I still believe that somehow something has gone wrong with the software version loaded onto the cars being affected - and the cars need to be flashed with the correct software version. Something is being missed somewhere by JLR and / or the dealer if they say a software update isnít necessary.
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:54 AM
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Can someone confirm that this is happening to the SVR trim also?
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:40 AM
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My understanding is the butterfly type valve in the muffler (silencer) is operated in one direction by a spring and in the other by vacuum controlled by a solenoid. This mechanism controls whether the exhaust is loud or quiet, relatively speaking.
I believe the pops and bangs occur on the overun, particularly when rapid lift off after moderate to high throttle, this is caused by the usual fuel injection cutoff on overrun being delayed and the ignition timing being briefly retarded resulting in ignition whilst the exhaust valve is opening .
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Can someone confirm that this is happening to the SVR trim also?
SVR has a different exhaust system therefore it is not an equal comparison to R. If I were you, I would go to my local Jag dealership and have them start up a SVR. Make sure you ask them whether or not all of softwares are up to date, re the most recent K309. They can check it by running the car key through their system.

I dropped the car off at the local dealership this morning. I managed to have the CRC provide my dealership with the new patch that hopefully will correct the issue, apparently there is new patch to correct the noise reduction on 2014/2015s in North America. I will post the patch number later today.
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:54 AM
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I happen to agree with you, something is wrong here. Mine is going back in on Tuesday. Supposedly tech and engineering are going to be involved. My car even loses the crack on shift during acceleration.
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ritzy View Post
I happen to agree with you, something is wrong here. Mine is going back in on Tuesday. Supposedly tech and engineering are going to be involved. My car even loses the crack on shift during acceleration.
Pretty much identical to what happened to my car in early 2016 after K309 - lost almost all cracks and pops, had to be very aggressive with the throttle - high revs and snap lift off to provoke a couple of cracks.

After the patch it was back to its original glory - sounds like the Fourth of July throughout the entire rev range without any provocation
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:55 PM
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Dealership just called. The car doesn’t accept the new software! So CRC has got the Jag engineers involved now. The saga goes on...
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:46 AM
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Hope you get it fixed. My car has enough pops and crackles for the both of us.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:32 AM
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It was my Thread regarding the dealer BS about 2017MY R having updated software to control the individual exhaust valves b/c "people were complaining the car was too loud"--lol! https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...design-187697/

As others have commented, this just cannot be true and makes no sense.

What I was complaining about with my car was probably imaginary. I was comparing my brand new '17R--with an exhaust that still needed time to break in and driving it in a reserved manner during the break in period--to my '16 R. The K309 software update did not apply to my '17R (never had the '16R long enough for the K309 to be applied). So when I read folks having problems with their exhaust valves, I decided to check mine out. Sure enough my passenger side exhaust valve was not 100% open, but more like 80%. However, as others have commented, including Stuart at VAP, having my passenger side valve open only 80% is not going to reduce the loudness greatly enough to be noticeable. Now if only 20% were open, then sure, the noise would be reduced considerably. The valve is probably getting slightly hung up on something, and had I not looked into the exhaust pipes, I (and others) probably would not have noticed there was an issue with the valve.

The overrun and pops and crackles is a completely different matter. Now that my car has 1200+ miles, the pops/crackles are effortless. Even Ritzy confirmed in another Thread that he compared his '16R (after he had the O2 software update and resulting problems) to a '17R and the '17R produced the pops/crackles without a problem.

Those of you with 2014-2016 Rs who are having reduced pops/crackles after the K309 software update need the JTB495 patch. As others have mentioned, dealers are unaware of the issue unless your VIN pops up as needing the patch and JLR probably hasn't included all of the affected cars.
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:17 AM
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I'm picking up my 17R on Wednesday and came across this thread. The production date on this car is 9/16. That said, do "you" think that this car will need the update for the exhaust or just the break-in period to develop the desired exhaust notes?
 
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:40 AM
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I had K309B loaded on my car in June 2016 - that appears to have been after they fixed the issue with K309. I would *hope* the right one made it into production vehicles by then.
 
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