Yes, we can tune anything Jaguar, or for that matter anything European.

Thank You
VMax

 

There is no doubt that your tune produces fantastic gains. The issue was that the "test subject" from the beginning of this thread had SOMETHING wrong with their car. Did you produce 100+ hp gains for them? Yes! With the same tuning applied to a car without whatever caused the performance to simply drop off would have produced 60 - 70 hp. Still a great gain!

Obviously your tune produces power. The original owner from this thread should be phenomenally excited because you apparently fixed the performance drop off, AND produced more power. It's possible that more people have this "problem" and are not aware of it if they don't push their cars, or know what to look for, IF they ever ever get above 5200 RPM.

I think what most people here are simply looking for is just an acknowledgment that IF the F-Type in question had not had a massive performance drop off, you would not have produced 100+ hp... (although you still would have had VERY nice gains!)

I'd personally like to see my STOCK F-Type R Dynos and see how they all compare. Simply, we need more data!

 

VMax... Do you do custom tuning while ON the Dyno, or do you have a "canned" file (possibly based upon gas octane and / or other mods) that you upload to all similar cars?

Do you have A/F readings?

 

Jeez, Stohlen . . . I think it's been clearly established and acknowledged by the OP that the "headline" of this thread did not tell the entire story, although the math was technically correct. However, the graphs speak for themselves regardless of the spin one applies to the data.

At this point, its impossible to tell the entire story because no one knows if those stock curves were representative of the OEM tune or indicative of a problem. That's also been acknowledged. More data is required to resolve that issue.

Unfortunately, the forum doesn't allow editing of forum titles. Perhaps VMax can work with a mod to produce a better title.

 

That's the thing (highlighted in bolt) if there was a hardware problem that we also addressed, that statement is 100% true. However since it was a straight software swap, the car was tested as delivered from the factory by Jaguar, the data in the graph is representative of what a stock 2016 F Type R on 91 R+M/2 octane makes on a linked AWD DJ with STD CF.

On the rest 100% agreed. How many other 2016 AWD 91 octane dynos do we have to compare this run to? For all anyone knows this is the norm on CA 91 octane...It may very well turn out not to be, the sample size is simply too small to base anything off of at this time. We'll post every dyno we can (at least initially) every bit of VBox and track data as well. The more objective info we can throw up the more data the end user has to make his/her decision with.

I/We don't believe that's in any way detrimental to the consumer nor a manipulative marketing stance on our end.

 

We can do both. Honestly dyno tuning doesn't net as much power with the newest smartest ECUs as it used to with dumber versions. A properly remapped "canned" tune has every chance of making more power than spending 8-Infiniti hours on the dyno with the wrong tuner. If they don't know where to look and what to change map wise, they will never be able to compete.

We have something in the works as far as a more customer friendly file loader, we'll keep you posted as things progress. Also working on an ECU development for the V8 cars that we feel they should have come from the factory with. Otherwise that single "canned" remap is good for every pump gas situation feasible, and maximizes 80-90% of the gains you'll see from dumping race gas in the tank.

Yes we have A/Fs from yesterday, the customer saw these in real time as well, we posted them from James tune but continuing to do so would simply lend a hand to any competitor on the market. Rest assured they are safe, our goal is obviously not to blow and engine, but to make as much safe power as possible based on both hardware and software limitations.

Thank You
VMax

 

I'm no expert at this by a long shot, but it seems to me that any FTR AWD dyno plot should be sufficient to determine if the car in question is weird or if they all are. I wouldn't think that 91 or 93 AKI would make that much difference, unless for some reason the knock sensor is going nuts at higher RPMs and lower AKI and pulled timing. But that should have showed up while monitoring on the dyno. A sample size >1 is needed even if the other samples are not exactly apples to apples.

The most likely scenario in my mind is that they all do that. If not, what would be different in this particular car? A hardware problem would likely not be corrected by software changes. And it's really difficult to understand how the software for this particular car would be different than for others.

What's clear is that there was a substantial gain from the tune. Perhaps (if you buy into my theory that they all perform like this car) JLR did this to allow upgraded outputs on other models (SVR), or for reliability. My bet is to be able to charge for upgraded outputs.

 

+1. No reason a V6 base tune shouldn't net the same output as a V6S tune.

 

2 points of octane makes a difference on any of the latest gen high static compression DI/FI engines since they all run on the edge of detonation. Any extra octane helps even factory calibrations make more power and torque with smoother curves.

Thanks
VMax

 

This is true. Both V6 and V6S end up the same post software tuning.

Thank You
VMax

 

You need to produce a new emblem for those V6 cars... perhaps they become the V6 S+

 

I agree with this, it's just that I didn't think that 2 points = 50 hp, or as steep a drop as was seen on chart.

 

You're right it doesn't when making power, though it does when it causes the ECU to cross the threshold of pulling ignition timing as a timing modifier.

Basically 2 points won't make 50hp but it may prevent the ECU from pulling the amount of timing necessary to keep 50hp in the cal.

Thank You
VMax

 

I'm learning here. If I interpret what your saying correctly, you are suggesting that with 91 AKI, timing is being pulled at high RPM which explains the wacky plot. It seems to me that there are only 2 reasons for it - all cars, no matter whether they run on 91 or 93 will act this way because JLR determined that this was a safe tune (forget the marketing aspects of offering higher outputs) for the least common denominator of 91 AKI; or that the knock sensor in this particular car was pulling timing.

BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn and understand.

 

No worries you're not being argumentative at all. You've asked valid questions and we appreciate it.

There are a few more variables when comparing to other 91 octane dynos that we'll have to add to the equation. ECT, EOT, BDT, IAT, Cat Temp, TFT, ambient air temp and the fan setup of the dyno in question. Also the specific tank of gas in the car was CA91 but as I've posted previously gas formulation varies greatly from station to station and even refinery to refinery. Pump gas has no set formula, race gas is the same combination of ingredients every time in the same percentage, no such luck with pump gas. Maybe it was bad 91, maybe it was average 91, maybe it was good 91, time will tell.

If it was a knock sensor issue the post tune graph would have suffered as much as far as shape of the curve as the stock pulls. Don't forget OEMs (all of them) revise tune files all the time. MB even went through four different sparkplug gaps on the biturbo 5.5L V8s before settling on a final spec. After the initial year of availability MB also changed over 155 hardware components in the same engines.

Thank You
VMax

 

He posted a second graph of a similar car which did not have this problem.

 

It was running 93 octane, and more importantly, was a Different Car altogether.

Thank You
VMax

 

Another factor that could possibly make a difference are fuel adaptions or any other learned values that would be reset after the tune (and may thus return again).

 

Possible. The customer has a VBox and will provide some numbers after enough miles have been put on the car and time permits.

Thank You
VMax

 

Well this thread took a turn for the worse!

I'm going to lock it for a bit while I go through and prune out the personal attacks, bad manners and derailments.

I don't know what axe certain people have to grind, and frankly I don't care. If people can't conduct themselves in a courteous manner then perhaps this isn't the right forum for them.

I will unlock it when it's cleaned up.

On the topic of "is a tune detectable?" i've split that off into a separate thread, and all discussion regarding it can be there, so we don't have the same thing popping up in every thread.