F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards

Yet another oil overfill.

 
  #21  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:21 AM
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No excuse for that on a RWD car.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd View Post
I always check the oil cold and look for it to be at 1/2 to 3/4 on the scale.
I am guessing external temps have a huge impact on this. The colder it is outside, the lower the oil level
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:44 AM
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I still don’t know why on my AWD it says ok when they put in 7.25 litres instead of 6.5.
Topix says 7.25 handbook says 6.5. Jaguar say it’s because of the oil filter but the handbook says oil filter included. A mystery. CRC never did get back to me.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by death1ord View Post
I am guessing external temps have a huge impact on this. The colder it is outside, the lower the oil level
Not significantly. Ambient temps generally are within 40 degF of the 72 degree benchmark accounting for ~4 oz of oil expansion/contraction. When warm, oil can be 170 degrees above that, amounting to as much as 1/2 qt.
 
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  #25  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:34 AM
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Add an oil temperature sensor to the sump (or somewhere suitable), which would be useful anyway. Have the computer compensate for the temperature of the oil and provide the correct level reading at all temperatures.

How difficult is this....?
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:09 PM
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More difficult than a dipstick apparently! Thanks for talking me off the ledge and saying that it is not THAT bad. I was going to call the dealer and make a tech come down & do it! But... I couldn't even get through to anyone, Monday morning and all. Although I have seen that others have done it, I'm guessing it would have been a tough sell to this dealer. The one that said they would do "whatever it takes" to make it up to me after they lost my paperwork for 10 days. Ya right...
My buddy has a pump so he is going to come down & help. So now I have to spend MY time AND my buddy's time doing this, to make up for the incompetence of the dealership. What me bitter?
But I know I haven't gone through 1/1000 of what some of you folks have so sorry for the rant...
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Misujerr View Post
But I know I haven't gone through 1/1000 of what some of you folks have so sorry for the rant...
Its totally justified. These are expensive machines and also somethings we look after. A dealership's incompetence should not be the reason for our headaches and waste of time. Thankfully, its not THAT bad, but if it would have been BAD, you would have have to spend a ton of time and effort trying to figure out how to deal with it. I hate dealing with customer care reps. They just don't care about you, neither does any dealership after they have sold the car to you.
 
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2018, 01:27 PM
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I was pleased that after my most recent lousy service experience, my dealer sent me a questionnaire, which allowed me to rip them. At least I got a voicemail from them.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by death1ord View Post
I am guessing external temps have a huge impact on this. The colder it is outside, the lower the oil level
Trying to think the oil-check routine through logically: Unless there is something fundamentally different about these particular Jaguar engines, there should be no reason why an after-overnight cold reading of FULL would not be accurate (but readings should be taken in a consistent manner: always cold or always hot to eliminate the variables). If you really want to know how much oil is in the sump then allowing a sufficient amount of time for it to drain down is the only way. If the oil level reads FULL (and not above) on a cold engine then there is no danger of being overfilled. Given that the volume of oil increases somewhat when it is hot, we still have to accept that in a running hot engine much of the oil is circulating and therefore the amount left in the sump will be less (that is, below any danger level). What is more, the stated fill amounts are for COLD oil out of the container, not hot oil. So if 7.5 litres are specified for a full fill including filter then that means that 7.25 litres will/should give a FULL reading on a COLD engine, not an over-full reading.

The instruction to check the oil when warm/hot is new - it was never part of oil-checking instructions previously for Jaguar engines (or any other as far as I am aware). Indeed the instruction was always to wait for several minutes (as it is now) to allow the oil to drain into the sump to provide a reasonably accurate reading. Indeed, this instruction was embossed on Jaguar disptick handles.
I doubt that the modern Jaguar engines REQUIRE the oil to be checked when hot (rather than cold) - the admonition is there simply (as before) to make sure that most or all of the available oil has returned freely to the sump. There is no admonition to NOT check the oil cold, is there? not in my handbook. So I still cannot see why a cold check would not be appropriate.
 

Last edited by sov211; 02-26-2018 at 03:23 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sov211 View Post
and why is the photo turned on its side???? Can it be straightened?
You were holding your phone sideways when you took the pic. Phones auto-rotate images, most computers don't.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sov211 View Post

and why is the photo turned on its side???? Can it be straightened?
Yes.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mshedden View Post
Add an oil temperature sensor to the sump (or somewhere suitable), which would be useful anyway. Have the computer compensate for the temperature of the oil and provide the correct level reading at all temperatures.

How difficult is this....?
Pretty sure the AJ133 and AJ126 engines already do this.
Download the AJ133 Technical Training document from my Dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y4iax9hm2...%20V8.pdf?dl=0
and check out pages 69 and 70.
From my reading the reason JLR say you should warm the engine up and then wait ten minutes before checking the electronic oil level indicator is so that almost all the oil has drained back into the sump, and not because the oil needs to be at any particular temperature.
I have checked the oil level indicator under a range of conditions - left overnight stone cold engine, hot engine, warm engine, follow 10 minute wait procedure and so on, and I get the same reading every time - "Oil level OK" and smack on the Max mark.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:25 PM
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OzXFR is correct the oil level sensor is a combined level plus temperature sensor.

The delay in getting a reading after running the engine is to allow oil to drain back to the sump, it will indicate "level unavailable" in normal mode until the appropriate time interval, about 8 minutes.

An immediate reading can be obtained by raising bonnet (hood), selecting oil level reading via car information menu then pressing cruise control cancel button twice in quick succession.

One final point is that if the car is on a slope when measuring this can lead to it displaying over filled, or possibly under filled depending on direction of slope.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DJS View Post
I was pleased that after my most recent lousy service experience, my dealer sent me a questionnaire, which allowed me to rip them. At least I got a voicemail from them.
Which dealer Sudbury or Norwood?
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:43 PM
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We've talked before - Sudbury.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by malbec View Post
Yes.
Ah yes, the cell phone. Thanks for reminding me of that and thanks to Malbec for making my beautiful F-Type land on its feet. The colour just amazes me.
 
  #37  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR View Post
From my reading the reason JLR say you should warm the engine up and then wait ten minutes before checking the electronic oil level indicator is so that almost all the oil has drained back into the sump, and not because the oil needs to be at any particular temperature.
I have checked the oil level indicator under a range of conditions - left overnight stone cold engine, hot engine, warm engine, follow 10 minute wait procedure and so on, and I get the same reading every time - "Oil level OK" and smack on the Max mark.
Exactly as I thought, and entirely logical. Thanks for this. So I will continue my practice of checking the oil before I start the car rather than waiting around for 10 minutes!
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 07:38 PM
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FYI, you don't need an actual extractor to siphon some oil out. You can just use one of those cheapo fluid transfer/bicycle pumps.
 
  #39  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:29 PM
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I'm happy to have started such a great discussion amongst y'all, thanks everyone! So instead of dealing with "those people" and ending in frustration, my buddy came down with his pump and we sucked out 24 oz till it said OK! Sheesh...
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR View Post
Pretty sure the AJ133 and AJ126 engines already do this.
Download the AJ133 Technical Training document from my Dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y4iax9hm2...%20V8.pdf?dl=0
and check out pages 69 and 70.
From my reading the reason JLR say you should warm the engine up and then wait ten minutes before checking the electronic oil level indicator is so that almost all the oil has drained back into the sump, and not because the oil needs to be at any particular temperature.
I have checked the oil level indicator under a range of conditions - left overnight stone cold engine, hot engine, warm engine, follow 10 minute wait procedure and so on, and I get the same reading every time - "Oil level OK" and smack on the Max mark.
Interesting. Well the hardware is certainly there, whether or not the software uses the temperature reading to 'compensate' for volumetric changes is unknown. Certainly the OP in this thread was 'overfilled' when warm/hot, and 'underfilled' when cold, which would tend to suggest the temperature is not factored(?), or something else (how level the car was) interfered.

That said since there *is* a temp sensor and I presume an oil pressure sensor (since the car can apparently detect catastrophic loss of oil pressure), one wonders if JLR could make 'sporting gauges' available in software - the lack of which I believe has been lamented on this board(?), 'cos proper sportscars are supposed to have them(!)

EDIT: - there is probably no oil pressure sending unit, so much for that idea. I gleaned that catastrophic low oil pressure detection is probably inferred from the correct (or not) operation of the Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) unit, which relies in oil pressure to operate, if it isn't working right the ECM flags low oil pressure warning...
 

Last edited by mshedden; 02-26-2018 at 09:43 PM.

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