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Cheers to all my fellow JAG Lovers. Resurrecting my '01 Carnival Red Vanden Plas, IceBurg, after installing new head gaskets, timing chains, coolant expansion tank, plugs, coils and NOW feeling the small loose/disconnected crankcase breather hose on the driver side running from the side to bottom of the engine is keeping the car from cranking. If this hose is not attached would it prevent the engine from cranking and maintaining compression required for combustion?? ,🤔 Maybe a stupid question but trying to narrow it down after minimal usage of the vehicle over the past 3 years of ownership due to repair after repair. Finally feel like I'm on the right path and final stretch but need to know if this hose is preventing the car from cranking or should I just go the ol' "bore wash" route.. what do y'all think?? Thanks in advance mates.
No the hose won't stop it from cranking. Now we need to make sure that is what you mean?
Is the engine turning over but not starting?
Or is the engine NOT turning over and not starting?
If the engine is NOT turning over then focus on if the starter is getting power and if it is take it out and get it checked.
Before going down the compression route do the easy things first?
Do you have fuel?
Do you have spark?
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No the hose won't stop it from cranking. Now we need to make sure that is what you mean?
Is the engine turning over but not starting?
Or is the engine NOT turning over and not starting?
If the engine is NOT turning over then focus on if the starter is getting power and if it is take it out and get it checked.
Before going down the compression route do the easy things first?
Do you have fuel?
Do you have spark?
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The engine is turning over but not cranking. It will sputter on briefly with the gas pedal pressed but not fire up on its own and maintain idle. Do have fuel and spark, although the fuel may be old from sitting in the tank without being used. May try bore wash
OK but use the correct terms or it gets real confusing fast!
So the engine is cranking but not STARTING? Starting is much different than cranking?
Sputtering is good because that indicates you have fuel and spark but as you said maybe not enough fuel or old fuel?
Could be bore wash. That tends to happen when you start the car cold and only let it run a couple of minutes and then shut it down. Especially in cold weather. Did that happen to the car?
I have revived an engine using starting fluid because if you can get it started that usually fixes the bore wash problem.
Can you measure the fuel pressure? Has the car been sitting? This has caused fuel pumps to go bad before. Maybe a fuel pump/pressure problem?
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OK but use the correct terms or it gets real confusing fast!
So the engine is cranking but not STARTING? Starting is much different than cranking?
Sputtering is good because that indicates you have fuel and spark but as you said maybe not enough fuel or old fuel?
Could be bore wash. That tends to happen when you start the car cold and only let it run a couple of minutes and then shut it down. Especially in cold weather. Did that happen to the car?
I have revived an engine using starting fluid because if you can get it started that usually fixes the bore wash problem.
Can you measure the fuel pressure? Has the car been sitting? This has caused fuel pumps to go bad before. Maybe a fuel pump/pressure problem?
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So I don't have a way to check the fuel pressure but do understand what you are saying about cranking vs starting,. So my fault if I wasn't specific. Replaced breather today and will attempt bore wash Soon... Response from my other thread...
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I have been working on Resurrecting my 2001 Carnival Red VDP, IceBurg, for a year and a half through two repair shops new head gaskets, timing chains, expansion coolant tank, new spark plugs/coils and now it's replacement of the drivers side crankcase breather hose.
Firstly, I'm curious about not being able to start the car without the hose on. That is normal right? Also does anyone know if the engine's inability to go higher than 3000 rpm is a sign of engine damage/nikasil failure or is that do to the breather hose not being attached right now. LASTLY, any and ALL TIPS AND ADVICE on the process/procedure of reapplication of the breather hose, thermostat tower, water pump and common failing coolant hoses would be APPRECIATED. Thanks in ADVANCE and CHEERS
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#2 mayhem's Avatar mayhem , 03-27-2023 01:46 PM
Senior Member
I have no useful advice on the breather hose question, but these engines have a 3000rpm limiter in park and neutral, so you should be ok there. Quote Multi 1
#3
Parker 7 , 03-27-2023 04:54 PM
Veteran Member
If the engine ECM is in limp mode for a fault it limits the RPMs from my understanding
On the starting you may have put the cylinders in a bore wash condition with your engine running patterns Vs. on the road as normal patterns
unburnt fuel will wash the cylinder walls of oil film to have compression for a successful start
2 ways to overcome it :
Hold the pedal to the floor and crank as the ECU knows to shut off the fuel , this relubricates the cylinder walls for a start with pedal relaxed
Keep a fully charged battery
Never put the battery in backwards , I just did it myself as a new battery was built backwards from the older one replaced
In tougher examples of bore wash condition you have to remove the plugs and pour a bit of oil and run the pistons through
Some have used gunsmith oil and what your looking for is something that will penetrate the rings and the ability of the rings to slide apart and expand
Let soak overnight
It will smoke , smoke a lot on startup as it burns off the oil , but it is the smoke of victory Quote Multi 1
#4
mobile1 , 03-27-2023 05:28 PM
Senior Member
If it doesn't go beyond 3 rpm that's knock sensor
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#5 Ice7Burg44VDP's Avatar Ice7Burg44VDP , 03-27-2023 11:59 PM
Junior Member Ok im
Ok I'm ALL EARS and APPRECIATE the feedback,, anyone else out there feel free to ADD ON. The MORE knowledge the better. Owning this car has been like earning a history, engineering and mechanical Associate Degree in XJ 308 J-A-G. Been trying to soak up as much DIY project info for tasks I can complete and only go BACK to the shop out of necesito ir difficulty of a repair. Hoping can get her ROAD READY for the LONG HAUL. Bday coming up April 4th so would be DOPE to FINALLY have her RIGHT... IceBurg the Carnival Cardinal Executive Lounge: trying to get my Office-mobile mobile... Quote Multi
#6
asdf , Yesterday 08:33 PM
Member
Side note: which models have the 3000 rpm limiter in neutral? Mine does not (03 xj8). Quote Multi
#8 M. Stojanovic's Avatar M. Stojanovic , Today 03:14 AM
Veteran Member
I have read somewhere (cannot remember where) that SC X308 (MB transmission) has a 3000 limiter in P or N to protect the transmission. When in P or N, some automatic transmissions are not totally in a "free gear" but may have some slight holding of one (or more?) of the cutches which may be damaged if the engine is revved high and for a longer period of time.
I do not know if the limit is also required in the case of ZF transmissions, and whether they are sensitive to revving, but, in any case, it is better not to rev the engine to much in P or N, just in case. The old ZF 4HP22 was notorious for its input clutch damage (burn-out) if revved in P or N. I believe there was a BMW bulletin advising not to rev in P or N at more that XXXX rpm and in excess of XX seconds. Quote Multi
#9 mayhem's Avatar mayhem , Today 04:59 PM
Senior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf Side note: which models have the 3000 rpm limiter in neutral? Mine does not (03 xj8).
Might just be the supercharged cars, mine is an XJR. Sorry if thiat was unhelpful, I didn't know the NA cars could rev freely.
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#10 Ice7Burg44VDP's Avatar Ice7Burg44VDP , Today 07:33 PM
Junior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_of_Australia Hi Ice,
maybe you find something useful in my X308 DIY guide, it is for the 1998 X308: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...e-swap-266724/
It includes the water pump, plus at the bottom there are links to my other X308 DIY threads.
Hey thanks for the extended help guide and DIY guide. My XJ 308 is of the 4.0 non supercharged naturally aspirated variety. I received my package today of the breather hose and was able to switch it out with minimal setbacks. The clips on the cam cover and T valve under the throttle body clip right in. For the hose part leading to evaporator I sliced the old one and attached the remaining hose from the 3 part breather. Once attached the engine did SEEM like it really wanted to crank, but I didn't want to overdo it before the bore wash. Newly attached breather hose tucked under cam cover
I see someone say the ECU could limit revving if it senses something is off. Now I plan to give it a NICE view wash and c of we can get some Good Friction in them valves and pistons to get her back purring.. also may have to try and drain old gas out, add fuel cleaner and or new premium fuel. So will keep y'all updated and thanks for the feedback too.
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#11 Ice7Burg44VDP's Avatar Ice7Burg44VDP , Today 07:43 PM
Junior Member Milky oil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice7Burg44VDP Hey thanks for the extended help guide and DIY guide. My XJ 308 is of the 4.0 non supercharged naturally aspirated variety. I received my package today of the breather hose and was able to switch it out with minimal setbacks. The clips on the cam cover and T valve under the throttle body clip right in. For the hose part leading to evaporator I sliced the old one and attached the remaining hose from the 3 part breather. Once attached the engine did SEEM like it really wanted to crank, but I didn't want to overdo it before the bore wash. Newly attached breather hose tucked under cam cover
I see someone say the ECU could limit revving if it senses something is off. Now I plan to give it a NICE bore wash and c of we can get some Good Friction+ COMPRESSION and Combustion in them valves and pistons to get her back purring.. also may have to try and drain old gas out, add fuel cleaner and or new premium fuel. So will keep y'all updated and thanks for the feedback too
Since you don't have a fuel pressure gauge a quick test is to depress the Scrader valve on the fuel injection rail. This looks like a tire valve and works the same way. Depress the middle pin and gas should shoot out. If it just dribbles out then low fuel pressure. A good fuel pump/pressure will shoot a stream up at least to the underside of the hood. This is not a sure fire test but if you have that level of pressure the car should start and run.
Yes the rev limiter restricts engine RPM in P and N to prevent damage of some kind? I think Jaguar mentioned the transmission TQ as a concern?
Post back about the bore wash if you can. Maybe it's something simple like that?
Still don't see if you scanned the car for codes?
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I have a code reader but for some reason it won't read or connect with the car. May be an incompatible model. Not sure where to find the injection button line, but appreciate the feedback.
OK how about trying a parts store? They all will read codes these days and it's free so maybe give that a try?
Yea unless your familiar with the 4.0L and the 4.2L V-8's the test port is kind of hidden.
Here is a picture I found and I have circled the fuel pressure test port. It's on the passenger's side at the very rear of the fuel rail. Look for the rubber valve stem cap. It's the same as what you see on tire vales.
Now ALL 4.0 and 4.2L V-8's "should " have this test port but Jaguar started de-contenting things as the 4.2L was phased out so later 4.2L engines may or may not have this test port. I know when you get to around the 2007 year it was dropped by Jaguar.
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9 LIVES & 99 PROBLEMS
Ok well can't get to an auto parts store while the car isn't running, but will take a look at the gas pressure button.
So there I was yesterday, a beautiful Carolina day and me with some time to get under the bonnet... My plan was to change the oil and then bore wash for a cold crank this morning. But in typical Jaguar "Murphy's law" TRADITION, some dumbass tightened my oil pan screw to SUPER DUPER tight. Not to mention the but is stripped so now I will have to buy a new oil pan screw and find a way to get the old super tight stripped one off. That way I can 1 change the oil, then 2 bore wash, 3 drain some old bad fuel out/and or add some fuel cleaner FRESH 93 OCTANE fuel, 4 HOPEFULLY FINALLY GET HER CRANKED 5 and LASTLY replace the old worn brittle taped up leaky tubes and hoses that caused my initial problems... And in the process of this hope nothing else SUDDENLY "needs my attention".... 🙄🤔😅🐯 Jags, gotta love 'em?! Lol
Last edited by Ice7Burg44VDP; Apr 1, 2023 at 12:45 PM.
Reason: typo
Cold Cranking my XJ 308
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