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Sanderson Headers?

 
  #1  
Old 10-09-2015, 11:58 AM
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Default Sanderson Headers?

Sanderson once made "shorty" headers for 2003 Ford Thunderbird. Currently, these headers are out of production. Advertised cost was about $500.

Perhaps they might fit a modern Jaguar V8? To determine, I would first compare Ford exhaust gasket with Jaguar. If they are identical, then highly likely of fitment, with maybe minor alterations.

I am not all that interested, but someone out there who is tuning their Jaguar like to pursue this.
 

Last edited by GGG; 12-09-2016 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Edit typo in thread title
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:21 PM
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Several threads on the topic here on the forum.

Long story short, they were not worth the bother.
 
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Old 10-10-2015, 11:52 AM
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I did read two long threads on V8 headers, perhaps there are more. Lots of discussion, but no claims of actually installing any brand/design of headers and no A/B test without and with headers. It is hard for me to agree that headers are not worth the bother without some definitive numbers.
Someone from Mina once told a forum member that headers were not effective; and that Mina cats were effective. Again, no numbers to back up statement.
Nevertheless, the market for headers is very small. I had direct experience with an '05 Cadillac CTS-V and long tube headers - stock exhaust. Absolutely no increase in exhaust sound - passed the wife test. TPIS was made my set. Recall their original prototype cost about $2500 to make. Recall that production of CTS-V in '05 was about 4000; and TPIS felt they might sell 25 sets. TPIS claimed 25-30 RWHP increase from their long tubes, which I never personally verified.
My guess is that the Sanderrson shorty headers will fit with some modifications; and that modifications are not that big of a deal. No doubt that "shorties" produce less hp than long tubes, but they do "work".
 
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Old 10-10-2015, 08:46 PM
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The Sanderson headers in question were sized to suit the 3.9L naturally aspirated engine. If fitted to a 4.0L or 4.2L supercharged engine they would actually be more restrictive than the stock exhaust manifolds.

Also the 4-1 tuned length design is not ideal for the AJ-V8, a branched or 4-2-1 design is actually better for low & mid range torque. Just like the factory manifolds fitted to the 4.2L naturally aspirated engines of the X350 XJ, S-Type, X150 XK, XF and the Aston Martin V8 Vantage.

There have been several attempts at producing headers to suit our cars over the years, so far nobody seems to have got it right, from the design or the price point.

At $2500 per vehicle there will be relatively few buyers interested, from an already small list of vehicle owners...
 
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Old 10-13-2015, 04:45 PM
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Yes. We never got the long tube Stainless Works headers installed on a S Type.

Stainless Works Performance Exhaust, Headers and Fabrication

They were finally installed on a Lincoln LS and the guy said it was very tough install.

They no longer even show a listing for these headers. Just no demand.

They are/were very pretty!

The second picture is them installed in a Thunderbird. Note the convertible "X" brace under the car. Never really got an answer on how they worked of the install difficulty.
.
.
.
 
Attached Thumbnails Sanderson Headers?-headers-stainless-works-headers-lincolnls-thunderbird.jpg   Sanderson Headers?-thunderbird-headers.jpg  
  #6  
Old 10-14-2015, 09:55 AM
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I hate to see this subject closed, as I think there are some real gains to be had. Unfortunately, we seem to have no performance numbers/tests or A-B comparisons - only speculation.
The DOHC motor is much wider than a GM pushrod motor, requiring any exhaust system to be cramped. Hence we have the comparatively primitive "log" exhaust manifolds. Log manifolds are present even on Land Rovers.
If I were designing headers I think a "Tri-Y" design would produce more usable power for street use than the long tubes in the Stainless Works. I'd try to produce it in pieces to be assembled on installation. This could be complicated to produce, but much easier to install.
My own experience with Tri-Y was back in the late 60s with a '66 Shelby GT350, which was manufactured with Tri-Y headers. Installed custom long tubes (stock heads with restrictive exhaust ports), and was disappointed with the result. This was early in development of long tubes and chassis dynos did not exist. Went back to the Tri-Ys. Shelby "ran" much better with Tri-Y, particularly midrange.
 
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:30 AM
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Dotted broken black line = AJ27 NA dyno data
Blue curve= AJ33 4.2 litre prototype engine
Green curve shows 4.4 litre engine (90 bore X 86 stroke- stock valve sizes) sucking and blowing through stock AJ26/7 intake and exhaust systems
Cyan curve shows AJ 4.4 prototype run with negligible intake losses- no intake trunking- a bit like an old school GROSS power curve


Red Curve is the same as a Cyan but uses a 4-into-1 exhaust manifolding design and very low back pressure- about 100 m bars at peak power. The lengths were about 800 mms (if I recall correctly) but the diameters were way too big in retrospect. VCT has been coarsely optimised at each point. You can see bolstering of low speed torque but a dip at about 2000 rpm due to 'anti tuning'. This is because the exhaust tuned lengths and diameters weren't optimised and usually when utilising a VCT engine- anti tuning should be able to be dialed out too. One wonders what the tester was doing. On second thought, after having lived in Germany and the USA also- its not really suprising with the entitled attitude you get from the shop floor hourly paid in the UK by comparison- but that's a whole different story...
 
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Count Iblis View Post



Dotted broken black line = AJ27 NA dyno data
Blue curve= AJ33 4.2 litre prototype engine
Green curve shows 4.4 litre engine (90 bore X 86 stroke- stock valve sizes) sucking and blowing through stock AJ26/7 intake and exhaust systems
Cyan curve shows AJ 4.4 prototype run with negligible intake losses- no intake trunking- a bit like an old school GROSS power curve


Red Curve is the same as a Cyan but uses a 4-into-1 exhaust manifolding design and very low back pressure- about 100 m bars at peak power. The lengths were about 800 mms (if I recall correctly) but the diameters were way too big in retrospect. VCT has been coarsely optimised at each point. You can see bolstering of low speed torque but a dip at about 2000 rpm due to 'anti tuning'. This is because the exhaust tuned lengths and diameters weren't optimised and usually when utilising a VCT engine- anti tuning should be able to be dialed out too. One wonders what the tester was doing. On second thought, after having lived in Germany and the USA also- its not really suprising with the entitled attitude you get from the shop floor hourly paid in the UK by comparison- but that's a whole different story...

seems intelligent people left England/UK ,back when GB was doing its ethnic cleansing, late 1700s/ onward, they were going to the new colonies USA/Australia, for a better life!

lets face it UK is a very well organised slave society!!
 
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Old 12-09-2016, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ronbros View Post
seems intelligent people left England/UK ,back when GB was doing its ethnic cleansing, late 1700s/ onward, they were going to the new colonies USA/Australia, for a better life!

lets face it UK is a very well organised slave society!!
What a set of bizarre and extraordinary statements. Whatever were you smoking?
 
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Old 12-09-2016, 08:44 AM
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>seems intelligent people left England/UK ,back when GB was doing its ethnic cleansing, late 1700s/ onward, they were going to the new colonies USA/Australia, for a better life!

lets face it UK is a very well organised slave society!!

Are you implying that the curve Count Iblis posted is mislabeled and is actually the measured IQ's of people living in the EU over the past 6500 years, ever since the earth was created?
 
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:52 PM
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What the hell?

This is a thread about exhaust manifolds / headers!

Get it back on topic or i'm going to start pruning posts and giving people vacations...
 
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Old 12-09-2016, 03:30 PM
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OOPS , my bad
 
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ronbros View Post
seems intelligent people left England/UK ,back when GB was doing its ethnic cleansing, late 1700s/ onward, they were going to the new colonies USA/Australia, for a better life!

lets face it UK is a very well organised slave society!!

I agree! *lol*
Doesn't Pomme come from-Prisoners Of Her Majesty?
Only the really intelligent people find a way to leave *lol*


Cambos- I wasn't offended by Rons post, perhaps it was off topic, but he was affectionately jesting.
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 06:47 AM
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Explain....

It seems to me both utterly wrong and incomprehensible as to how anyone could think it.

Been watching Fox News or what???
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
Explain....

It seems to me both utterly wrong and incomprehensible as to how anyone could think it.

Been watching Fox News or what???

In all seriousness- I think in the old days, a lot of folks left due to religious persecution, I know people here that will talk about Henry the 8th and Thomas Moore and how he stood up to him. I didn't even know who Thomas Moore was till I came here.


Now, I think, if you belong to certain professions in the UK, you can pursue greater success in the USA, engineering being one of them.
No doubt. Engineers have always been treated like crap over there, and all the unions and technicians who call themselves engineers as the title isn't protected is a complete disgrace. The accent opens many doors too and this really has been the land of opportunity for me. I will never go back to live.


Ok, last off topic post in a thread about exhaust headers. We can now resume back to our normal scheduled events!
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:33 PM
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Ye gods that's OVER FIVE CENTURIES (500 years) ago. Things have changed.

No wonder some people have weird ideas if they're so OUT OF DATE AND IGNORANT.

More recent scientific/engineering things have included the jet engine, Turing machine, computer and LCD (liquid crystal display). Dunno if you've maybe heard of any of those.

Please stick to facts - and about cars.
 

Last edited by JagV8; 12-20-2016 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JagV8 View Post
Ye gods that's OVER FIVE CENTURIES (500 years) ago. Things have changed.

No wonder some people have weird ideas if they're so OUT OF DATE AND IGNORANT.

More recent scientific/engineering things have included the jet engine, Turing machine, computer and LCD (liquid crystal display). Dunno if you've maybe heard of any of those.

Please stick to facts - and about cars.


You DID ask hence I responded,


I never said that Brits weren't capable of innovation- but that it isn't rewarded. Frank WHittle innovation got invested by the Americans and so on. That is FACT. Look it up. Britains short termism doesn't benefit engineering, only the finance industry.


Probably best if we take this to IM or off-topic
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:30 PM
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So anyhow, about those headers????
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cambo View Post
So anyhow, about those headers????

*LMAO*


Good idea, lets get this topic on track.


I was wrong about the plots I showed, the header lengths of the red plot was 1 meter and they were very wide in diameter.


There was room for optimisation.


Unfortunately- in the X308 and the X100, there so little room to get tuned lengths in there.


On the supercharged cars, we tried a split log, like on the AJ33/34/36 N/A to separate the pulses and for some reason the supercharged cars lost power. May be the lengths, designed for packaging were not good enough. I copied this on simulation and got line-on-line correlation with the dyno. I then made the pipe diameters bigger on the simulation and there was still a power loss over just having the cast iron style exhaust logs on the SC engines. I don't know why.
 
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Count Iblis View Post
You DID ask hence I responded,


I never said that Brits weren't capable of innovation- but that it isn't rewarded. Frank WHittle innovation got invested by the Americans and so on. That is FACT. Look it up. Britains short termism doesn't benefit engineering, only the finance industry.


Probably best if we take this to IM or off-topic
When bankrupted by world wars we were not concentrating on making money out of inventions, true enough. Odd that.

Maybe you have a mobile (cell) phone with an ARM chip in it, that's us, too. We have a lot of Nobel Prize winners, as well.

We're probably not as bent on profit at all costs regardless of human welfare as the USA. Suits me. (We do need to tax your tax-dodging megacorps, though.)

At least I got you more recent than 500 years ago. You have avoided the (to me bizarre) SLAVE issue - where would you like to take it?

edit: got it: you don't know that WE THE PEOPLE elect our government every few years (not quite as you do, for we do not have the weird electoral college thing you have) and that the Queen/King has the title but not the power
 

Last edited by JagV8; 12-21-2016 at 07:39 AM.

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