I have heard that reverse bleeding is the best way to bleed brakes. I just bought a 2005 3.0L X-Type. I have seen people suggest vaccum bleeding. Which i bought a tool to do it and it was a disaster and didnt work. So I opted to get a reverse bleeder. I seen a post saying you never reverse bleed any ABS system. So which is it? Why would a new bleeding style come out but not be useful for newer style brake system?

So the question, what is the best way to bleed a X-Type? I have no option to have someone help. So it is either the old school bottom method, or vaccum/reverse bleeding. I originally took the ABS system out of the car. (Not the original plan but I couldnt get the module out with out taking the ABS block out.) So the system... well you see the problem. Before I hook the reverse bleeder up and do more damage, I figure to ask the community. Thanks in advance.

 

Welcome to the forums GreyFox24,

I use a pressure bleeder regardless of make or model.

Follow this link https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x-type-x400-14/ to the X-Type forum for help, advice and information. The 'HOW TO' thread at the top is a good place to start for information on regular issues. You can also use the US Northeast Region forum by following this link https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/us-northeast-35/ to find other members in your region.

Please read the guidance for new members ( https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/n...ned-up-241802/ ) which answers many of the most frequent questions about getting started.

Enjoy the forums.

Graham

 

Welcome aboard.

 

Welcome to the Forums.

Like Graham, I bleed ALL my Jags the old school way. Helper on the pedal, me on the nipple, down/up/down, etc, until clean fluid flow, then move on to the next wheel.

Never ever had an issue with any of them, and my X Type is just fine.

Good luck.

 

Welcome to the forums.

 

Hello,
Congratulations on your new X-type Jaguar!
Welcome to the forums from ElinorB.
(';')

 

I understand that forums dont like "repeat" questions but there is no where that I have seen that actually answers my question. Some beat around the bush, and other posts dont even talk about it. Since I have heard reverse bleeders and vacuum bleeders both called pressure bleeders, that is still vague. I appreciate any and all responses but i have to get this car moved by Monday and I seen one post saying a reverse bleeder will destroy the valve seals on a X-Type. I need to know specifically if anyone has had success with a reverse bleeder. I just bought the car and it is 2 hours east of me. (Cars in my area are going for $6500 and i got this for $1k for bad brakes.) So i dont have unlimited time to work on this. Other wise i would just do it the way i know given i had more time to get under the car. So the point is, is the post about destroying the seals for the ABS system a real thing or someone just talking out their...

 

I would do it this way but I dont have a helper. I just recently moved 9 hours from family and the people I know. If i cant get a good answer on the reverse bleeder, I will go back to old school. Just a different old school. Bottle filled with brake fluid, hose buried in the fluid, crack the valve and pump the brakes until done. Rinse, lather, repeat. (Just trying to be lazy and try a newer method. I heard reverse bleeding was superior about 7 years ago and never tried it.)

 

welcome to the forum - enjoy!!!

 

Welcome to Jaguar Forums GreyFox24,

Good to have you with us.
Enjoy the forum.

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If you need help with getting around and using the forum follow this link for some help Forum Help

 

I'm not familiar with any "reverse" bleeding methods. If that means pushing fluid in from the bleed screw, then I would think that sound's like not the greatest idea. I suppose there could be one-way valves and solenoids in an ABS unit that might be compromised by exceptional pressure in the wrong direction, but further even on an old classic car with basic brakes, how do you "flush" the system in reverse. You could I suppose stop every few seconds and suck the old yucky brown stuff out of the reservoir with a turkey baster to keep it from overflowing, but what a pain.

I've tried vacuum bleeding, but I don't like it. Once I crack that bleed screw open, because it's less resistance to suck air past the threads than sucking fluid through the system, I get a cubic meter of air bubbles for every teaspoon of fluid and absolutely no sense of whether there's any air left in the lines. It will work, but IMO, that's a lousy method. (And if you try to push fluid in through the bleed screw, wouldn't much of it leak out past the threads for the same reason that vacuum bleeding doesn't work well?)

I have found the Motive Products pressure bleeding system to be the easiest to accomplish without assistance. However, I will warn you that the clear hoses that come with the equipment really should not be used with DOT3/4 brake fluid, at least not more than the first time. It WILL degrade the hose over a few years and it WILL eventually burst on you, not a matter of if, only when, spraying brake fluid all over your engine bay, maybe even all over your shop. I learned that lesson the hard way. If you buy one, the first thing you should do is replace the clear hose with real hydraulic hose. I know why they include clear hose, so you can see the fluid moving and watch for air bubbles, but its more for psychological effect because people like to see things working. You really only need to make sure that the reservoir itself stays full during the process then you won't get any air bubbles in the system.

Some people install speed bleeders, basically a bleed screw with a one-way valve in it and sealant around the threads (the problem with above methods - the stock bleed screws generally have fairly loose threads and no sealant - just not designed to be bled that way). I've never tried them but the concept is sound. It just lets you pump the pedal yourself and not have to manually close the bleeder after each pump, but wait until you're all done. You may want to look into that. I have seen them for sale at local auto parts stores, so you may be able to get a set today and let us know how they work out.

But one last warning about the "old fashioned pumping method" with an assistant or even with speed bleeders. I restore old cars and I wish I had a dollar for every master cylinder I've had to discard because the bore was too far gone to hone. When people don't flush their brake fluid every three years, the bores rust up. What happens is the length of the normal pedal travel inside the bore is usually ok, being swept clean of oxidants by each time you apply the brakes in normal driving. The extremes of the piston travel get rusted pretty heavily because the piston almost never goes there. Then all of sudden one day they decide that the brake fluid is waaaaay overdue for a flush. So they get a helper to pump the pedal all the way to the floor, pushing that piston past its normal travel range and across the jagged rusty section, over and over again, thus tearing up the seals. Now the fluid is fresh but starts leaking (pooling inside the booster where you won't see it) and consequently letting air in. Over the next few days or weeks, they drive the car, the brakes get mushy and they wonder why the brakes are failing right after they flushed the system.

So there's pluses and minuses to each method. On the one hand, the "one-man" methods are less likely to result in damage to the master cylinder piston seals. On the other hand, it won't reveal when your master cylinder really ought to be replaced anyway.

 

It's not a 'repeat' when it's further detail or continuation of the discussion.

Reverse bleeding is a bad technique as it puts dirty fluid with suspended particles from rubber seals back into the system. I use positive pressure at the master cylinder to expel all the old fluid. It's a one-man operation and the other advantage is that brake fluid is deliquescent (absorbs moisture) so fresh fluid throughout the system is the preferred solution.

Graham

 

I am going to quote this but also address the other fella at the same time. Why would you push dirty fluid back in the line? You should be using new fluid to reverse bleed with. Yes turkey bastor to the master cylinder. And the one way valves are my concern. I heard that reverse bleeding will damage those. But almost every shop i have questioned (throughout the last 9 years) insists reverse bleeding was superior. Then how could it destroy the one way valves. Yes reverse bleeding would be taking a pump and pushing new fluid in from the bleeder instead of up front. The idea is to be a one man show, and also air has a desire to go to high elevations. Aka easier to get air back to the master cylinder.

 

No one is assuming you'd re-use dirty fluid, but if you've ever opened up an old brake caliper and inspected inside, particularly if the previous owners skipped more than a couple of those bi-annual flushes, you'd be shocked, or as the Brits might say, gobsmacked , at the amount of corrosion and related crud that can build up in a caliper bore after 16 years. I believe Graham was simply concerned about the detritus in each caliper that you might be forcing back up through the system. And that's why I like the Motive bleeder, as I can quickly run four quarts of fluid through the system till it's running crystal clear out the bleeders and hopefully flush some of that junk out of the calipers.

 

I did see another post bring up the one way check valve and the second person pointed out the X-Type don't have that check valve. He also said that the Jag procedure does say to just push the piston back during a rotor and pad job. Then he said that suggests the Jag team don't see pushing fluid backwards as harmful to the system. (Which still don't help.) I really thought someone would have used a reverse bleeder and had a story to tell. These systems have been out for over 10 years. At least in The States. Surprisingly now. Just a bunch of us old schoolers that know what works. I really wanted to try something new but might just stick to what I know. Deep down, I dont see how it would damage the system. The fluid is meant to go forward and back. It isnt only meant to go one way. How many of us has not put a clamp (or channel locks) on a piston and pushed it back in its hole to change pads? We all made it home the next day.

Time will tell. Im planning to go out today. So either I come back with a story to tell, for the future, or crashed and burned on the way home. (Realisticslly, if I dont make a follow up comment, I forgot. Dory memory. I know better to drive a car with brakes like this. Future readers, don't drive your car with bad brakes. My reverse bleeder kit shows a diagram of what happens with air in your lines. They guarantee that you will hit a semi.... 🤣 Like seriously thats their visual???)

 

One more thing. Now I see what is considered actual pressure bleeding. The other 2 methods are not authentic pressure bleeding. Vacuum bleeding is closer to gravity bleeding (which it isnt the same thing) and reverse bleeding is almost pressure bleeding. Minus going backwards and all.

 

Well. As of now, they are finally bled. What sucks is i drove 2 hours to get to the car and if i would have put in an extra 10 minutes last time i was here..... Yeah I just stuck to the bottle with brake fluid at the bottom and put the one end of the hose into the fluid, cracked the valve and started pumping. Only took one wheel to do. Oddly it was the wheel i thought was actually fully bled the last time.... anyways. Now to figuring out the real problem. Master cylinder was replaced before i bought the car and might have been done wrong, or more likely, the ABS module is down for the count. Sort of. Future readers. Still no ides if a reverse bleeder works on this car slash ABS system.