When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Hello All,
My S type 3.0 year 2000 sadly will not start. I have narrowed the problem down to the fuel pump. At the sender unit, I've managed to remove the red 90 degree elbow with great difficulty and have now given up on the smaller white elbow for fear of damaging it further. I have used WD 40 for 2 weeks now but it will not come out. I have pushed down and pulled up but it just wont come out and any further and forcing it may break it. I am really looking for suggestions that may help release the connection i.e freeze spray/hot water?
My second question is what are my options if the white elbow breaks? will I need to drop the fuel tank to install a new elbow/fuel line? Some searching online shows the other end of the elbow/fuel line connecting to a metal pipe on the fuel tank.
Any advice would be really helpful.
Thanks
André
Dear Steve Leighton, I feel your pain. Now I'm wondering if the 12v at the my pump has enough current to run the pump.
Please let us know your progress.
Thanks
André
Hi Andre
If you have a look at the fuel lines from directly above you will see that you have to squeeze the push tabs in and at the same time push down on the part you are squeezing (not the fuel line). In my case I could hear a click. At this point you gently pull up on the fuel line.
I found that it feels like you need an extra pair of hands. So I put a pencil under the right angled part of the fuel line right up close to where the fuel lines go into the pump. This gave me leverage (because if you are squeezing in and pressing down it is difficult to push the fuel line up at almost the same time). I had to take the fuel lines off a number of times and it got easier the more I took the fuel lines off and understood the process.
If you break the push in tabs it is more difficult to push down and lever up. The first time I broke one these tabs and it requires more brute force but should come up if you have no choice. When you get the fuel lines off and take a look at how they work you will see that by pushing down you are opening the locking mechanism inside (you can't see this when they are still connected).
If you are removing the fuel pump
A couple of points you may wish to follow once you have the top inspection cap of the fuel pump off.
It is better to have the tank empty, or low so, you can see better and your hands aren't immersed in fuel when taking out the pump.
Also the top of the pump has tabs that need to be squeezed in and then lifted to remove the pump. You will need to carefully manouvre the pump out so as not to damage the float. Also check your fuel pump fuse again once the new fuel pump is in (the one in the trunk/boot).
first question that pops up is: Do you have power at the pump when you put the ignition on? The pump will get current for a few seconds. If it gets no current at all it can be as simple a the fuse in the trunk. But if it gets at power at the pump while priming it is time to change the pump.
I have seen a lot of pump replacement and not solving the problem. It can be as easy as s bad contact at the fuse.
Hi Paul792, Thank you so so much for the detailed explanation. It's so obvious where I have been going wrong after reading your post. I've been pushing the fuel line downwards all this time. The pencil is something I'll try too. Will try again tomorrow and double check the fuse.
Thank you too VortexXL. When I used my multimeter and I have 12.15 volts at the pump with the ignition switched on. I cannot remember if the volts drops after the pump is primed. I am thinking I have VOLTS at the pump but if I should be checking CURRENT then I may need some help as to how to do that.
Thank you both for replying and I shall check both again tomorrow and let you know the results.
Hi all, I am checking the voltages at the fuel pump connector before attempting to remove the fuel pump. I really don't want to break any plastic clips so here is what I've found so far.
The fuel pump wires have 0 volts with key removed from ignition. However, what I believe to be the fuel sender wires have a constant 10.89 volts (less than battery voltage) with the key removed from ignition .
Ignition on ( no crank ) I have 12.35 volts at the fuel pump and the same 10.89 volts at the sender unit wire.
The 12.35 volts did not drop ( I thought it would drop to 0 volts after priming of the pump? ) for 5 mins. Key removed from ignition and the 12.35 slowly dropped down by 00.01 volts every 15 seconds approx.
This may be normal. I was thinking that the fuel pump voltages would drop after priming, say a few seconds before cranking.
I would also be grateful if someone could tell me which relay to swap with the fuel pump relay. I can feel the fuel pump relay click when the ignition is turned on but unsure if it's functioning. May be worth a try.
Many thanks as always
André
p.s I've been struggling to identify the wire colours accurately but can take photos if that may help.
Hi all, Strangely my post yesterday has vanished.
Anyway, I decided not to try and remove the fuel pump lines unless I really need to and both my thumbs still hurt from my previous attempt. So, I used my multimeter and was checking voltages at the fuel pump connector under the rear seat.
Ignition off: I have no voltage to the pump. Ignition on: I have battery voltage to the pump but no sound from the pump. I waited five minutes and battery voltage remained at the pump ( I expected it to drop after priming say a few seconds) but was constant for the five minutes. Igintion off: battery voltage at the pump but a slow drop of about 00.02 volts every few seconds.
Ignition off: I also have constant battery voltage at the other wire but assumed this to be the sender unit.
In fairness I found it hard to see the wire colours but can strip back the harness if it would help.
I read that voltage can be present but current can be too low to start the pump and wondering if there is a way to verify current with my multimeter.
I read that voltage can be present but current can be too low to start the pump and wondering if there is a way to verify current with my multimeter.
André,
That tidbit may have come from me, over in Steve's PleaseShootMe saga, here and in multiple other other threads:
Please take anything I suggest with a giant grain of salt, especially in that case, as it was pure conjecture on my part. Pieced together from various sources, this is how I THINK the normal pre-start pump operation works:
1) Key off, relay R7 in the back is deenergized. No battery power to the pump circuit in the RECM nor downstream to the pump itself.
2) Key on (not to start yet), R7 is energized. Battery power is now available to the RECM pump circuit and downstream to the pump. The RECM also provides a ground to the other wire at the pump and it builds up pressure in the injector rail. I'll call this the "prime" function, as it's priming the injectors with fuel pressure for starting.
3) If the key is left on but still not to start, the pump shuts off after a couple of seconds. I'm not sure of the exact control method. I think it's just a simple timer. In a recent thread, there was some conjecture the PCM signals the RECM to shut off the pump (by taking away the ground) once adequate pre-start pressure is sensed at the injector rail. In addition, as a possible safety feature, any time (not just pre-start?) the pump is commanded to run but no pressure is sensed, the pump is automatically shut off on the assumption of a major leak. I do NOT know if this is true, so don't read too much into it. Regardless of the control logic, you normally see the pump run only long enough to prime the line before start.
4) Key to start, and then back to on. The PCM reads the fuel pressure at the injector rail. The PCM talks to the RECM, which modulates the pump ground to maintain the desired fuel pressure at the injectors.
If you go straight from off to start, without pausing at on, there isn't much time to prime the line. This might extend the cranking time, I'm not sure.
So anyways, I've been rethinking my previous comments about voltage available at the pump, but with the current purposely limited so the pump doesn't run. I had been thinking the RECM was continuously monitoring the integrity of the pump circuit, even when not running. That's why I said not to be misled by the presence of voltage, as that's not conclusive that the pump was commanded to run.
But that idea was SO yesterday. My TheoryDuJour is the voltage present at the pump is a constant with the ignition on. But the pump only runs when the RECM provides a ground, too. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, at least until the wind changes.
Sometimes troubleshooting gets kind of tricky in these situations, as you have to extrapolate some of the computer logic. Am I guessing correctly? Heck if I know! But I do know the pump should run if power is supplied to one wire and a ground to the other. If rigged like that with test leads, that totally bypasses any control logic, to establish a baseline for troubleshooting. And if the pump runs, you should have pressure at the injector rail. I'm not sure if the pump is polarity sensitive. Not all electric motors are. If so, and the pump doesn't run when jumpered, or the pressure is low, reverse the test jumpers and try again.
In the same thread linked above, please see post #24 for detailed instructions for setting up the test jumpers to the pump. Also, wire color codes are discussed, too. Please note the color codes only apply to the vehicle side of the harness. The pump/fuel level sender module is a vendor-supplied assembly and they may have used other colors.
You've left me scratching my head for many reasons that I couldn't even respond to your post last night (brain freeze). Anyway, I think I'll do as you suggest and try testing the pump as per your post #24.
So, PCM is waiting for fuel pressure with the ignition switch on ( no start ) and the RECM sends a ground and ( positive? ) signal to the pump to pressurize. No pressure?, the PCM tells the RECM no pressure so the RECM cuts the ground supply ( leak/faulty pump ).
3) If the key is left on but still not to start, the pump shuts off after a couple of seconds. I'm not sure of the exact control method. I think it's just a simple timer. In a recent thread, there was some conjecture the PCM signals the RECM to shut off the pump (by taking away the ground) once adequate pre-start pressure is sensed at the injector rail.
If the RECM takes away the ground after a preset time so why do I still get a reading on my multimeter? I'm assuming that my probes are connected to positive and ground on the pump leads so in theory after a few seconds I should lose the readings on my multimeter when ground is switched off. O.k, I'm scratching my head again. I have constant voltage for over 5mins and then only a slight drop of 00.02 every few seconds when the ignition key is removed.
TBH. I'll give post #24 ago and see what the results are and then we can move forward with the next possibility.
I do have lots of questions kr98664 but totally worn out tonight. Sorry.
Hope everyone has a good weekend
André
Sorry for the delay in replying but work and the rain had delayed my plans.
I managed to swap the fog lamp relay with the fuel pump replay and this made no difference. The fuel pump relay does have a stong click when the ignition is engaged and no start.
I thought my next step would be to test the integrity of the pump using my multi meter. I disconnected the electrical connector under the rear drivers seat and tested the connector to the pump and noted the following.
4 wires. orange (thin) yellow (thin) black (thin) black&red (thick).
TBH I am unsure if these reading are indicating a faulty pump so any help as always is appreciated. If not I'll continue on with Kr98664 wonderfully detailed fault finding posts.
I managed to swap the fog lamp relay with the fuel pump replay and this made no difference. The fuel pump relay does have a strong click when the ignition is engaged and no start.
André, I take it you are following along with Steve's similar thread? If so, I just noticed an important difference for your car. On his '02, the fuel pump relay is #7. On your '00, the fuel pump relay is #6. Wiring diagrams here, courtesy of Gus. Scroll down to fig 03.6:
I'm glad I caught that. Repeat the relay click test, but this time at relay #6, NOT #7.
Originally Posted by Navy
I thought my next step would be to test the integrity of the pump using my multi meter. I disconnected the electrical connector under the rear drivers seat and tested the connector to the pump and noted the following.
4 wires. orange (thin) yellow (thin) black (thin) black&red (thick).
IF (big if) you are on the correct wires, 1.7 ohms through the pump seems okay. I don't know the exact specs, but that is neither a dead short or an open circuit. Remember, this doesn't prove the pump is good. It's just a quick test to make sure the pump isn't obviously bad.
To make sure you're on the correct wires, look at that same wiring diagram, fig 03.6 again. The wire colors on the pump assembly may not match the vehicle harness on the other side of that connector FP4. Match up the two pump wires on the pump assembly by looking for the GO wire (green with orange stripe) and the BR wire (Black with red stripe) on the vehicle harness.
André, I take it you are following along with Steve's similar thread?
Absolutely, I say lets try and kill two birds with one stone.
I printed out the fuse board and relay layout in my car from a link (somewhere) but I can't find it. It shows relay R7 in the boot as the fuel pump relay but having checked your link ( kr98664 ) I can see I've made a mistake.
I'll double check R6 tomorrow.
Also, I'll check the ohms again for the fuel pump on the vehicle harness GO (green with orange stripe) and BR (black with red stripe) and report back.
Thanks again kr98664 for the R6/R7 mistake. I completely missed that.
André
Hi everyone,
Hopefully Steve is a happy camper today.
Ok. double checked relay R6 in the boot and it clicks. I swapped this with R7 (I think fog lights relay under the bonnet) and it made no difference. I removed R7 in the boot as it clicks too (gearshift lock?) and maybe confusing me but R6 appears to be working fine.
I double checked the wires on the fuel pump to confirm I'm testing the correct ones. On the vehicle side connector GO (green with orange stripe) and BR (black with red stripe) do indeed connect to the pump. So my ohm readings are valid for the fuel pump while in situ.
I am thinking of my next steps.
If the RECM takes away the ground after a preset time so why do I still get a reading on my multimeter? I'm assuming that my probes are connected to positive and ground on the pump leads so in theory after a few seconds I should lose the readings on my multimeter when ground is switched off
I would like to know if I connect my meter to GO and BR vehicle side connector ( under rear seat ) ignition off then I can assume I would have no reading. Ignition on, 12v for a few seconds (priming) then no reading on my meter as RECM removes ground Y/N. Have I over simplified this? Would it make a difference if the connector is connected to the actual pump?
So, shall I bit the bullet and attempt to remove the fuel pump and do a 'Steve' bench test. TBH I am a little worried running direct voltage to the pump.
I would like to know if I connect my meter to GO and BR vehicle side connector ( under rear seat ) ignition off then I can assume I would have no reading. Ignition on, 12v for a few seconds (priming) then no reading on my meter as RECM removes ground Y/N. Have I over simplified this?
In theory this should work. However, I've found electronically switched grounds to be very fickle when tested with a meter. The meter tends to show a good ground, but it's really just an insignificant trickle of current leaking through a transistor or some other component. It's enough to trick the meter into thinking there's good continuity, but in reality the meter reading is not conclusive.
Originally Posted by Navy
So, shall I bit the bullet and attempt to remove the fuel pump and do a 'Steve' bench test. TBH I am a little worried running direct voltage to the pump.
I would not pull the pump yet. Disassemble as little as possible for troubleshooting. There's no reason to fear testing the pump in situ. Use socket #3 at relay #6 as a fused power source and you should be all set. Unlatch the rear seatback for access to run a long jumper. Run the pump for just a few seconds to see if you get pressure at the fuel rail. If so, then the pump is good.
Have you verified the security system is happy? As we've found in Steve's thread, under certain conditions, the security system will shut off the fuel pump. With all doors locked and the security system armed (lock button on key fob pressed twice), the red light at the base of the windshield should flash once every three seconds. Unlock the car and the light should go out. Turn the key to on (not start yet) and the red light should come on solid for several seconds and go out. If the light flashes with the key on, you've got a problem with the security system and it has likely inhibited the fuel pump.
Thanks kr98664,
I kind of set myself up to pull the pump today but you are right I should do the easy checks first plus I'm scared of breaking those clips holding the fuel lines.
O.k I've got a couple of hours free tomorrow lunch time so will jump the fuel pump as described using #3 at relay #6. Fingers crossed.
I have sort of checked the anti theft to the extent that during key start (engine turnover) the red light is off. However, I'll double check as per your instructions tomorrow and report back.
Thanks for explaining my question regarding the earth supply. I guess I'm just stuck in the past when things seemed easier.
Thanks again kr98664 your help and advice is always appreciated.
André
Hi everyone,
Kr98664, I checked and re checked the security light on the dashboard and it is working as you described. I tripple checked it.
I jumped live from #3 pin relay #6 to the fuel pump connector under the rear seat and earth from the battery to the same connector. Initial contact gave me a small spark and I then reversed the wires and the same small spark. Tried a couple more times and the same result. No sounds from the fuel tank whatsoever and no fuel pressure.
Thanks kr98664,
I will attempt to remove the fuel pump and try my best not to break anything in the process..Ahem!!
My car only has 19960miles so I am surprised that this has failed considering age/use.
Would I be right in thinking that the fuel pump can stick? My car has had limited use over winter and the fuel level was very low the last time I used the car. Anyway, as soon as I get it on the bench I'll report back.
Hi All,
Sorry for not updating my issues earlier but I have been attempting to remove the fuel lines to the fuel pump. I finally manged to remove the fuel lines (thanks to Paul792 who helped above and beyond) and the complete assembly.
The fuel pump is dead and needs replacing.
I contacted the main dealer here in the u.k and the complete assembly (sender included and vat) is £371. They do not supply the fuel pump on it's own. I am hoping to replace the pump with a new one but after some initial searches it seems that the fuel pump electrical connectors are mirrored. The new pumps are supplied with an electrical connector that needs splicing into the original wiring but I want a straight plug in type pump that uses the original jaguar connector. Hopefully, the direct swap fuel pump exists.
Whilst dismantling the fuel sender unit I removed the small housing above the fuel pump pump. A small brass valve with a ball bearing inside fell out. It looks like a check valve with one end pleated to retain the ball. I would be grateful for any information on it's proper orientation when I come to reinstalling. Also, could the fact that this valve fall out so easily contribute to the fuel pump demise?
Part number on complete housing YW4U-9H307-BA
Part number on fuel pump XW4U-9350-DA
Both the filters on the housing and fuel pump are unusually horizontal.
If anyone has found a direct plug n play pump then perhaps a link or other could be passed on to me.
Many thanks for anyhelp as always and Paul792 who helped me get to this point.
André
03-30-2018, 01:11 PM
Access to fuel pump
