Why do people insist on washing their cars in sub freezing weather?...................

 

After letting it sit for a good hour voltage dropped to 12.38v. I started the car with lights, stereo, and heater blower on, checked voltage and read 14.5v, so alternator seems fine. Drove car on highway for 30-40 mins. The battery may be getting drained from something and/or bad battery.

Anther observation/question, since I had the car, is the PATS light supposed to be flashing appox. every 3 secs. even when the car is off and unlocked?

Thanks for your help V8

 

Yes, it's showing all is OK.

I suppose next is see what voltage is after standing over night.

 

Voltage drop from 13.5V to 12.38V after just an hour is not a good sign and is indicative of a power draw when the car is off.

Check voltage after sitting overnight - I'm sure it will be less than 12V - feel each relay. If you find one that's warm or hot to the touch you can narrow down your voltage draw to the accessories that are tied to the relay.

To confirm (after you shut the car off) pull the offending relay and test it. You will also realize your battery voltage will probably stabilize.

Also, a sticking ignition flap in the switch can prevent the car from going to "sleep" The flashing PATS light will have no affect on battery amp draw. Hope this helps.

 

Or could just indicate a bad battery. Disconnect the battery and see if the voltage drops at the same rate. If so, it's the battery. Otherwise it's a power draw.

 

Thanks for that bit of info. Are you talking about the relays housed in the fuse box in the trunk? I'll see what it looks like in the morning. Also, how would I go about testing a relay? or how to tell if the ignition switch flap is stuck?.

 

Car measured 11.92v this morning. Checked relays in boot and relay #11 and possibly #2 felt warmer, but not hot, this was done before starting the car. I know there's a drawing of the relays to tell what is for what, I'll try and find it.

 

So you know either battery is no longer what it should be regardless of its age or you have a drain, or I suppose both.

 

The car started no problem with battery reading 11.91v before start up. Relay #11 and or #2 are warm to touch with car running, these are "switched system power relays" 1 and 2. So how would I go about testing these relays? Also how do I know when the car goes to "sleep mode" after 30 - 40 mins? I read this could be a draw from battery as well if it does not "sleep" Not sure what direction I need to go at this point.

Thanks for your helpful responses.

 

Feeling relays is great if it works but really needs to be done after the 30-45 mins and with engine off of course. Also, you can't open any door/hood to do it, as that'll wake the car up, so need to have left them open beforehand. Defeat the open-detecting sensors if you like.

There are threads about this with details of using a meter on amps / mA, which is a better way but needs care and preparation.

You'll also see those who've had a drain find the car starts at 11V or so, just as it does when throwing weird codes with a failing battery. (Jaguar leaned from this, it seems, and some later cars report a low battery explicitly.)

 

Pulled out suspected relays #11 and #2 from boot, charged battery to 12.8v, took off charger and see if voltage drops below 12.6v. after a few hours. If it drops far below, (say 12.3v or lower) then I may need a new battery. If it does hold a charge, then I'll have to trace the drain somehow.

 

OP update: Checked the battery voltage after car was sitting all last weekend, it was 12.12 vdc. I will put it on the Battery Tender ( similar to the C-Tek) on Saturday, record voltage, then see if it degrades over next week.

When Autozone read my P1074 code, after they got P1111, and the MIL had cleared after approximately 50 miles or so, and hasn't re appereared since.

I have an OBDCOM diagnostic kit on order, should be arriving this Saturday. I will then look at LTFT's and STFT's at idle and at 2500 rpm, hot engine. ( right, JagV8?

 

Yep. Sounds OK so far.

 

OP Update: Here's the data I just obtained from a scan of the OBDII system:

Stored Code: P0174, Pending: P1111, MIL off

Checked after a 35 mile drive, coolant temp 201*F,(94*C) IAT 102*F (39*C)

@Idle (730 RPM):

O2 Sensor Output Volts, STFT

Bank1, Sensor1 0.0, 0.0%
Bank1, Sensor2 0.685, 0.8%

Bank2, Sensor1 0.0, 0.0%
Bank2, Sensor2 0.135-0.625, 0.8%

@ 2500 RPM:

Bank1, Sensor1 0.0, 0.0%
Bank1, Sensor2 0.765 0.8%

Bank2, Sensor1 0.0, 0.0%
Bank2, Sensor2 0.330-0.700, 0.8%

Long Term Fuel Trims:

@ Idle: Bank 1: 3.1%, Bank 2: 0.8%

@2500 RPM: Bank1: 2.3%, Bank 2 : 1.6%

**Notice Bank2, Sensor 2 output voltage was fluctuating.
According to the stored data at time of code P0174, the STFT for bank1 was 6.3, and bank2 7.0, LTFT's were: bank 1 19.5, bank 2 18.8
Other data at time of code as follows: Coolant 199*F, Man. Press 28.35"Hg, 82 mph, MAF 53.78 gm/sec, calc load 62.0%, fuel 55.70 psig, 2428 rpm, iat 23*F, tps 43.5%

The battery I did not put on the Battery Tender yet, but seems to be holding at 12.27 vdc. Will charge tomorrow.

 

You have a vacuum leak. Most likely the intake manifold o-rings, but check for a torn intake boot, broken vacuum line or bad PCV elbow as well. If it is the manifold o-rings, it would be wise to replace the spark plugs at the same time as well as the valve cover gaskets if they are leaking. You can check for a vacuum leak by spraying brake parts cleaner (not the safest way, but effective) or the preferred method of propane around the vacuum lines and around the bottom of the intake manifold while the car is running and listen/feel for a change in the car's idling.

 

IMT o rings already on my lengthy " to do" list. They are leaking and they remind me when I get the aroma of burning oil when I put the climate control on!

I also plan on plugs, coils, cam cover gaskets, and any other hard to reach items while the intake is off.

Unfortunately I won't be able to do this work until April or so since I have no garage, and will be doing the job in the backyard.

Its been a week since the MIL cleared, and I'll take it easy until said work is complete.

In the meantime, I will check for a possible, additional vacuum leak other than the IMT o rings.

 

Good work!

Please post back if you get this fixed. Really helps others reading the thread.
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Be worried that you can be doing damage and April is a long time. Lean enough and engine damage, semi-fixed by PCM and probably catalyst damage instead. April is an age away.

 

True. Perhaps I should replace the IMT orings via the "short route" for now....just need an unseasonably warm, sunny day.

 

OP update ( Battery Subject)
Finally got to put the car on the Battery Tender yesterday, full charge indicator light on after approximately 8 hrs.

Drove car in to work this morning, checked battery voltage after it sat for 4 hrs, ( I know, not 8, but I was curious), meter read 12.6 vdc

Will try to re check tomorrow morning after car sitting for 8 hrs, but we are expecting a major snow storm for tonight/ tomorrow, so I'll see.

For now I'll use 12.6 as my starting point, and see if it drops any by week's end.