So the 2002 3.0l went into the dealer this morning. Rough idle, P0171, P0174 and P0420 codes and stalling at idle. Dealer says the bank 1 cat is gone and was likely fouled by the bank 1 misfire. Says the cat needs replacing, bank 1 coils, gaskets etc... $3141.00!!!

Freakin car only cost $3500 to buy. I am not spending the same on it's first repair! Any thoughts? Sell it? Buy another Volvo? Car still runs great above idle.

_Allan_

 

Fix it yourself

 

P0134 may mean the cat is shot and causing the misfire codes so you may just need to replace the cat. Can you hear any rattling noises coming from the cat with the bonnet open when someone revs up for you?

 

Go to a local exhaust shop that does custom exhaust work, have them install some aftermarket high flow cat(s), will involve cutting out your stock ones and welding in some new ones, job shouldn't run more than a few hundred bucks,

 

You really can't own a used Jaguar if you don't do the work yourself. The dealer will just be too expensive.

With your miles there is a lot of maintenance that needs to be done. Coils, plugs, Vacuum hoses, IMT O-rings, Intake manifold gaskets and you are overdue for transmission service. And now at least one catalytic converter. If you get miss-fires you can’t let it go because you will end up destroying the cat which it looks like you have done.

I wonder what condition the other cat is in?

If you are unwilling to do your own work you will be far ahead to sell the car now.
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Thanks guys.

tbird I am quite willing to do the work on my own however as this is my first Jag, my knowledge is minimal. Replacing the cat isn;t a problem. There are alot of custom exhaust shops in my area that I'm sure will give me a good price.

However.... if something is going or has gone that is affecting the cat, replacing the cat isn;t going to solve the problem. The dealer said it is misfiring on bank 1 however it's not showing a misfire code on my reader. I know the dealer equipment will show more info than an OBDII reader but I would think a misfire would be pretty prominent. I dnt like places saying "We'll try this and see if it works!"

The car initially (a month and a half ago) kicked on the MIL light. P0171 and P0174 codes where thrown. The MIL would go on and off intermittently. The latest was last Tuesday it went off and stayed off all day. A few weeks ago, it threw a p0420 code. These are the only codes it has given.

Two other things I asked the dealer about when I dropped it off were the stalling at idle if idling too long, and the transmission flash TSB 30707. Interestingly enough, when they called this morning, they didn;t mention either.

As I said, I have no problem doing the work myself however it would be good to have a direction to follow rather than just starting to rip things apart. Kind of thought that's one of the reasons these forums exist.... ;-)

_Allan_

 

Do you have the JTIS and the JEPC? Both are free on this site and are the first thing to get.

The V-6 has a list of known problems but none of them are too serious and can be fixed. We have several nice threads with pictures for the most common repairs.
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Can you get live data on your reader?
STFTs and LTFTs can be more helpful in diagnosing possible fuelling problems than DTCs.
It is chicken and egg here, did the misfires damage the cat or is a bad cat causing the misfires.
If you replace the cat and the misfires go away then that's the answer. If they don't then you'll need to sort out the misfire problem pronto.

 

Did they arrive at this conclusion by assessing the vehicle or by assessing your ability / willingness to pay?



Whilst replacing the Cats and coils could well eradicate the issues, it's an extreme approach. It may be that the Cats are gone but logical troubleshooting would eradicate possible HO2 sensors and harness faults before drawing that conclusion.

Graham

 

Yes, as usual Graham is showing common sense.
Let's take a step back - what actual codes are you seeing now?

 

Thanks for your assistance guys. The codes it's pulling now are p0171, p0174 and p0420 (sorry I incorrectly said p0131 and p0134 in my original thread. My bad.)

Symptoms are rough idle (occasional) and stalling if I let it idle for more than about 30 seconds. Just cuts out without warning. Starts right up again.

Dealer says coils, plugs, o2 sensors, bank 1 cat needs replacing. I kind of think that they just figure if they replace everything it should fix the problem. I don't really like that approach especially when it's my money.

So understanding that a misfire may affect the cat and a bad cat may cause a misfire so where do I start? I suspect the cat may be bad as the p0420 is specific to that however I imagine it could be a sensor also. Seems to be a vicious circle at this point.

_Allan_

 

I'm sure that's exactly the thinking behind their recommendation.

P0420 isn't exclusively the sign of a dead Cat. There are other possible causes:



It's always best to refer to the Jaguar DTC Summary for the complete list of causes. As you can see in the above extract, there's plenty of other things to check and eliminate.

Graham

 

I'd get an elm327 (about $15) or similar OBD tool, but must have "live data" so you can look at O2 sensors to check they're OK and fuel trims, ditto.

Many of the fixes (O rings and stuff) really are very cheap if you DIY. If a cat's dead, and it may well be but not yet for sure, then as people stated an exhaust place can fix fairly cheaply.

I really wouldn't use a dealer unless you know they'll change the minimum and care about keeping the cost low - some good ones do but by no means all.

Misfires are usually vacuum leaks (perished hoses, common) or bad coils or if not then very worn plugs. The plugs are long-lasting so don't assume it's the plugs.

Spend a while reading the HowTos here - free

 

Alleycat66, I feel your pain.I just had the dealer try and take me to the cleaners as well. I follow the suggestion from the members in this forum and saved myself some cash. I was having mis-fires and had the dealer change out the coils/plugs for almost 2k, and the CEL/restricted performanc lights came on before I even made it home. Now the dealer wants almost 6k to change the fuel injectors and saying "that might fix it." I went to a local mechanic and he revved the car and you can hear the cat just rattling away. So my advice would be if you dont want to or are unsure how to DIY, then get a local mechanic you can trust and let them do the work. That'll save you a lot of money.....just my 2 cents

 

Thanks again guys. I took it to a local to work mechanic that I have had good results with in the past. Talked to him about the symptons and what the dealer said. His opinion is that the cat should not be causing the problems. I'm going to take it in on Thursday and he will give it a thorough scan and pinpoint the misfire. He said it is likely a couple of bad coils and it probably needs spark plugs.

_Allan_

 

My '01 Jag would just start rough idle and then shut off at a traffic light or anytime it was sitting idling. I replaced the IMT O-rings myself (with the great info I got from this forum). My engine light still was on and throwing the P0171 and P0174 codes. My mechanic said passenger side CAT was bad. I bought one and the shop put it on....engine light didn't go out. Then was advised MAF sensor....bought one and put it in myself ($160). Didn't go out! I tore their butts up and then changed the upper and lower manifold gaskets and VOILA! She is purring again! 123,000 miles and running strong.

 

Alletcat, if you are reading you will do well to read Funjags experience above.

 

Thaks Tony and Funjag. The car is officially dead. After fixing the code/stalling problem (vaccuum hose, manifold gaskets, plugs and other various plumbing) to the tune of $1400.00, the transmission fried last Friday. My mechanic dropped the pan and found black fluid and lot's of little metal pieces.

My official foray into Jaguar has been a bust, For a vehicle that had only 142,000km it seems to have alot of problems. Maybe when I'm rich and famous (or just rich) I'll buy another Jag for a toy rather than a daily driiver.

I've posted the car for sale in the appropriate forum if anyone is interested. Till then, thanks for all your help and happy motoring!

_Allan_

 

Weird. Cheap to get a used trans, Ford 5R55N, I'd think, but don't recall this failure before.

 

Can get a used 160,oookm trans for $1200.00. $500.00 to install. Has more km on it than mine. Then it may go in a month! Yeesh....

_A_