I just purchased a 2000 S-type with a bad engine. The price was good enough that I can stick a stock 4.0 back in it and drive it and/or sell it without a loss. I purchased it because the body and interior is in great condition and I've been looking for a Jaguar to use as a rolling chassis for an engine swap. I would like to put an engine into the car that has 400+HP.

So here are my questions.

1. Is there anyone on the forum who has successfully completed an engine swap into a S-type? If so, what engine/s? Another AJ series engine? Ford? GM?

2. Has anyone on the forum swapped from an automatic to manual transmission? 5 speed? 6 speed?

3. How much power can the stock rear end take?

4. I am primarily a GM OBDII electrical guy. Does anyone know the electronics in the S-types? Are the electronics ODBII, FORD? Bosch? Could I stick a Chevy LS series engine in the car and cross over the electronics?


Thanks.

Joe

 

If you just swap in another S-Type engine I don't think it will work without some reprogramming, but it depends on the engine and lots of things - get jtis (ebay, $10, workshop manual) and look at the sheer number of different electrical diagrams for the various engines and car years.

I think the 4.0 is the Ford PTEC, that the 2002 is the Denso 32-bit, and 05 is the DensoPAG.

People have I think done 500+ bhp but not with the 4.0 AFAIK. The suspension (and much more) changed a lot in 2002/3 so you'd start there, honestly. A search on rwhp may help. Oh yeah, the gearboxes changed, too. Do a lot of reading!

The earlier cars are only complex electronically, the later are tougher
But if you strip lots out and if the other engines etc will fit, you can do almost anything. Not easily, I'd think.

 

I would LOVE to see you pull off an LSX swap here...

I have all the wiring diragrams and a phd in electrical engineering to help you integrate whatever you like...

The LSX and GM Trans would run on their own pcm / tcm. you'd have to keep certain aspects of the Jags system for HVAC, and adapt them. But i think it could be a badass project.

George

 

Jagv8. Thanks for the response. I ordered a jtis manual, thanks for the input. What I really want to do is drop in a GM LS376 crate engine with at T56 manual transmission. I've worked with LS1 versions of this set-up before for another swap. (Chevy to Chevy), not Chevy to Ford/Jaguar. I haven't measured the engine compartment of the S-type yet so I am not really sure if a LSx series engine and T56 will fit. I was hoping someone on the forum had done something similar before. I still haven't found anything out yet regarding how much torque and power the differential/rear end can take.

If the engine/trans will fit, I know I can get the car running. The challenge will be to get all of the Jaguar instruments to function off of the signal outputs from the GM ECN. Speedo, Tach, fuel level, oil pressure, water temp. A 2000 S-type is OBDII based, so it shouldn't be too hard for figure things out. I like clean installations, not band-aids and bailing wire.

 

The 00's have an oil pressure gauge in them?? The guages should be relatively easy to adapt, especially considering you have all the sending units etc.

The hardest part to a manual swap would I think be sourcing a pedal box and the associated bits... I don't think there were many manual s-types produced for the north american market.

Across the pond things are different...

Now Just eyeballing it, you'll get an LSX in there. I've seen them shoehorned into BMW e36's and e30's.

As far as the trans tunnel, I think the ZF 6 speed is bigger dimesionally, so a T56 should fit, but the only thing I question is the shifter location, and can you get it as far back as the auto shifter is in the S.

Now, as far as the rear end. i don't know power and torque specs BUT it's basically a ford 8.8" pumpkin under there. NO lsd, and apparently a set of mustang 8.8" gears or lsd won't work.

Maybe one of the Jag techs can chime in, but does the STR (which is making 400hp / tq) use the same rear? I haven't heard of anyone blowing up a rear here. Although I have heard of plenty of tranmissions going south.

 

If you read the thread found by a search for
585whp
you'll hear of an S-Type where the diff's apparently OK (but not the tranny).

The ICM (dash) has had at least 3 versions, with different connectors (pre-2002, 2002/3-05, post-05). Some/all are variants of Ford's HEC, which may help you find stuff out.

 

Please keep the input coming. Every little tid-bit of information helps.

I have typically worked on GM vehicles, so I am familiar with GM's OBDII and GMLAN control systems. Around 2006, all GM products started switching over to GMLAN electronics. This has made it really difficult to swap newer GM engines (VVT and direct injection engines) into older cars. The problem lies in GM's gateway module/BDM, where many conditional states have to be met before the Gateway module will let the ECM start the car. I know that Ford/Jaguar started to implement their CAN/LAN starting around 2003. It appears to me that I will have a better situation, swap wise, using a 2000 S-Type rather than a 2003 or newer vehicle.

The LS376 crate makes a good heart transplant because one can purchase a self contained ECM from GMdirect, or after-market, where the ECM doesn't need all of the gateway states satisfied to run properly.

Assuming that I can resolve all of the mechanical problems that arise putting an LS3 into the Jaguar, I can most likely get the car to run. The difficult problems will be to make the Instrument cluster (HEC), ACM, ABS, NAV, FEM/GEM and REM work properly. (I don't have the electrical schematics yet to study, - any day now.) I don't know if I can make GM talk Ford, and Ford talk GM. So I suppose I'll have to become very familiar on how both deal with their signals, voltages, digital, analog, inputs and outputs. I suppose that if they both have complied with the ISO standards it will be possible to do.

On a positive note, it looks like the 2000 S-type EEC is an EEC-V rather than an EEC-VI that is CAN/LAN based. This will make it a lot easier to map signals and get the other control modules to work independent of the GM ECM and/or talk to the GM controller.

 

PM me your email address and I'll send you all the electrical schematics..

George

 

I guess that being a junior member wont allow me to send you a message directly. Here is an E-mail address you can send the information to.
tijoe@ymail.com. I believe it can handle up to 25megs in attachments.

Thanks for offering to send the schematics.

 

You got mail.

 

Well at least youre asking all the right questions.
Why dont you buy a later camaro/ta from a scrap yard complete with ecu, trans engine etc...at least that way other than fabbing mounts, exhaust etc. You wont be building harnesses and adaptations to marry it all. And remember to stay with obdii since in texas you can no longer do a sniff test to pass state insp without odbii. The diff will handle the power as long as you dont put sticky tires and side step the clutch. Weve had 4-5 manual boxed v6 stype here so you can at least get the pedal box for a manual. Shifter location, if off cut n splice the console and recover in leather if location is off

 

Brutal:
I see your in Sugarland? I live in Katy and use Momentum Jaguar. They have always done a great job. Is that where you work? If I need more stuff done (I am sure I will!!) and have to pay for it I would really like to use you or your shop!!
.
.
.

 

I completely agree with the F body donor car... That's a great idea. All the swaps I've seen use the stock F body (or gm pcm's) donor OBDII port, both for emissions testing, and for diagnosing the car.

plus an LS1 with an LS2 intake mani and some bolt ons will make 400+

As far as diffs, Brutal will be more knowledgeable in this but, I think you have 3 optons:

S-type 3.0 gives you a 3:37 ratio
S-Type V8 gives you a 3:07 ratio
and STR gives you a 2:87

Now, Brutal are they all the same strength / construction and is the only thing different the gear ratio, or are the ones from the more powerful cars stronger internally?

I know they all bolt in interchangeably...

I'm thinking you find a 3:37 rear to give it oh a bit of pep...

George

 

Thanks for more good input.

Regarding how I like to do engine swaps is with new or near new low mileage components. If I use a 4th gen Camaro as a donor, it is difficult to find an engine/trans combo with less than 30K miles on it. When you do find a low mileage one, the yard usually wants way too much money for it. If you purchase a higher mileage engine/trans then I'll want it rebuilt back to stock or super stock. That costs a lot of money and takes time to get it done right.

I am keeping my eyes open for a 2010 Camaro as a donor. It will still cost in the $9K to $11K for the complete drivetrain. But after 2006, any GM car is controlled by GMLAN. It is really tough and more work than I want to do to try to get the stock ECM and BCM to run correctly when put in an older OBDII or OBD car. It will probably be more than another year before enthusiast crack all communication codes and create a control box to convert or emulate all of the comunications that need to take place over the LAN.
Therefore if I purchase a motor from a yard, It is best to also purchase the GM Direct controller kit, (For the LS376 engine it is P/N 1920127) There are 3 to 4 other companies that make harness kits as well. All of these kits have the ECM flashed/programmed to the engine, they remove the need for VATS/security, provide the OBDII diagonostic connector, and have a bulkhead connector with outputs for high speed GMLAN date, MIL control,Eng speed and all of other critical signals. There is no need for a Gateway/Body control module to run the car. All of the High speed Data stays on the engine harness, you only have to deal with the low speed data interface.

Any way you cut it, you are looking at around $12K for a new/low mileage latest technology drivetrain, and another $3K for exhaust, and part to put it all together.

I am a little concerned about what to do about Texas vehicle inspection. I don't think that the GM Direct ECMs come with a VIN programmed into the box. I'll have to look into how to address this. Anyone encounter this yet?

 

you can always contact currie enterprises about building a 8.8 or 9" ford to go into the stype. they can make a center section to bolt in and mate half shafts to a stub axles center section like the older XJ/XK. or you can put in a solid rear axle and go with a 3/4 link and coil overs. Im meen how far do you want to go...its only money...either your kids or wife/ex will end up with it

 

Seems to me what you're proposing to do could become an almighty great headache. It might even make sense to fix the existing engine and keep it in the vehicle esp. as you said you might sell it on. Although I'm an electronics engineer in the general sense rather than the automotive sense, a project like the one you're contemplating would frighten me to death on that count alone.
Leedsman.

 

Jaguar appear to keep to OBD-II standards, but that allows a LOT of protocols

The early S-Types are PWM (SCP) and ISO9141-2. The facelift added CAN. (Nav etc use D2B.)

Mating GM's VPW to Ford's PWM (SCP).... is there a box to do it for you? (I suspect not.)

 

Of course keeping a stock engine in the car would be the sensible thing to do. I know as well that it is difficult to put a 2003 and newer 4.2 AJ-34 series engine and/or a supercharged engine in a 1999 to 2002 series Jaguar.

To me, there is the lure of 480hp (reliable power) versus 280hp in a good handling luxury car, definitely overrides my desire to be sensible.

1. Other than a monster Miata, there aren't very many cost effective cars these days that are rear wheel drive, handle well, and can accommodate a high hp V8.

2. The auto manufacturers, on purpose, or not, are making it really difficult to modify and customize late model cars. Most good cars are highly integrated and optimized to their sales price, class/niche. In my mind, almost all the
affordable cars these days don't have enough power.

3. Mustangs and Camaros are boring and way too common! I am not into Japanese cars either.

4. Besides a V8 in a Miata, for an investment of around $20K, can anyone think of any other vehicle that would as exciting to mod as a late model S-type or XK?
_____________

As far as I know there are no conversion boxes that let you talk ford to GM or GM to Ford. 1999 to 2002 Jaguars will be easier to work with than 2003 and newer. I may end up having to create my own interface link between the remaining ford body control modules and the GM ECN. The software and hardware is straight forward, but reverse engineering the Ford codes may be a real pain in the ****!

 

You probably want to be playing witth a facelift (2002/3) S-Type, as the suspension was redone (and other things).

JTIS has a list of some of the SCP messages but not in the kind of detail you'd want. The jag codes MIGHT be on GTR, though I somewhat doubt it. etools may be the answer but not when you see the crazy price.

I don't really see why it would be easier to figure out the earlier S-Type network messages. It'll be a swine in any case but you may as well start with a car having the better suspension etc. Or, not do it at all by just not keeping the jag modules.

This may be why most start with an STR and tweak pulley, blower, etc.

In case you're serious about figuring out the data packets, maybe get a jag-specific OBD tool and watch its packets.

 

Exciting or not, I could never bring myself to spend that kind of money on a project like that. Especially in this terrible economy when I want as much of my money working for me as possible....