Is that the one from MB Motorsports in Jersey? The silver one?

George

 

I wanted to post a quick update regarding the engine swap into my 2000 S-type.

I have a question. As work on the car progresses, should I start a new thread specifically focused on the project so it can eventually be turned into a sticky? Or should I keep my progress posted on this thread?

- I found out that Austin, Texas is not a city with a lot of speed and performance parts and cost effective auto and machine shops. Specific examples are finding shops that are good at drive shaft work and exhaust work. As a result, I'll end up doing most the work myself and purchase what I need from shops I discovered online and/or through forum recommendations.

- Parts I've ordered are arriving every day and the engine/trans is finally supposed to arrive tomorrow.

- I have already learned more about the S-type fuel system, drive-shaft and differential than I figured I'd ever have to. I am not finding many existing custom parts that I can adapt to my needs. So I'll have to fabricate more small parts than I planned on. I thought that the electrical would be the main challenge.

I'll start posing some pictures once I start making real progress fitting the car's new heart into it's chest.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I can't see this being a FAQ. Putting in a new engine is probably not a FAQ but just about might be if you were starting with a redesign (2002.5MY+) car, especially if you were (say) taking a good STR body from a wrecker (so, blown engine) and putting in a more powerful engine. Even then, a FAQ looks unlikely.

Actually, I'm interested and suggest a new thread, but although I'm interested I still doubt the "FAQ" part, bearing in mind what the "F" is.

 

Thanks for the input.

I really wasn't thinking of a history/writeup of the project as being a FAQ.
I am thinking more of an archive of the project with pertinent details such as brands and P/N's of unique parts necessary to do the conversion and pictures so that future readers don't have to spend hours on end searching forums trying to find information about what they would have to do if they chose to do something similar. In the Monster Miata forum, there is a great sticky of what one guy did to install a LSx engine in his Miata. Some of the finer points of the write-up has helped me in my project.

I've been finding that trying to find information quickly about a a problem and the best solution is very time consuming. Take for example finding out what I can or should do to modify the 2000 S-type differential/carrier to be sure it will hold up to significantly increased torque and about 500 HP. There are only a few threads about Jaguar differentials and the best information ended up being on the Lincoln LS forum. I spent hours finding out about and confirming what LSDs will fit. Or try searching and gathering information about flex discs. (Donuts, Flex couplers, Roto-flex) That is another void that consumed hours of time.

Joe

 

Joe I think the rear is a modified ford 8.8" housing, but from what I have read it doesn't accept a standard 8.8" gearset. There has been tons of talk about trying to get an LSD fitted into these cars but I don't know if anyone has really come up with a solution.

If you're going THIS far, you may consider swapping out the axle, but I don't know how difficult it would be with the independent rear suspension.

George

 

Any collected info about part #s etc could be useful. Certainly LSD keeps rearing its head, although it is almost always for the redesign car (2002.5MY on) and usually for the STR. Even so, anything you find may help someone.

 

I suppose that the challenges I am encountering are to be expected. As far as I can tell I'll be the first to do this swap. I never expected thing to be easy or go smoothly.

Installing LSD is something I'll definitely do after the car is running, but for now I only plan on swapping out the pinion yoke in order to fit a new drive shaft. There is a lot of speculation on how much power the differential and axles can take, but Lincoln LS forum contributors have written that 500 HP is about the max the unit can handle. (I could be ok with a stock set-up) A guy with turbo charged 3.9L LS adapted a Mark VIII IRS differential, but he had to change the axles as well (different spline count) and it cost about $1500 plus the time to weld in new differential mounts.

The Camaro LS3 drivetrain is supposed to arrive today, but who knows when it will actually arrive... 3 days late and counting...

 

My LS3 dropout arrived last Thursday. I got the assembly off of the crate and pulled the trans off the engine. I have the trans and a mock-up block roughly positioned in the engine bay of the S-type. I am taking measurements and getting ready to start fabricating mounts. I don't see any show stoppers fitting the engine and transmission into the car.

I am amazed at how much money I am spending on the little things. $100 here, $200 there. At the rate I am spending I can see hitting $20K on parts and materials versus the $15K I planned for!

 

Quick update. Sorry no pictures this time for those who are visually oriented.

I have mounts fabricated and installed that are holding the mock-up block and transmission in position. I have the GM/Camaro electronic throttle pedal and a new CNC reverse swing clutch pedal assembly installed. I am stalled on the actual engine installation into the car while I wait for a GTO oil pan to arrive. The biggest complication to date is that the cross member and steering rack is located almost dead center under the engine. At a minimum, a very custom oil pan will be required, or I may decide to go with a dry-sump system. (Dry sump - It's only money...)

Too much fun...

Joe

 

If you pull it off I will have the same approach. I hate the 00 heavy engine and mushy transmission

 

For those of you that have been following my project, I was gone for a month up in Ontario Canada. I started working again on the conversion a couple of days ago.

I am working on adding a knockout on the GTO pan I am using for the LS3 engine. A month + ago, I cut the pan for clearance around the cross member, fabricated new plates and had the pan welded up in order to keep it rigid before I cut out the front section of the Pan. Hopefully in the next couple of days I'll get the oil pan fabrication done and then cut and weld the oil pickup to its new location.

On the weird side, while I was gone, it appears that some sort of termite ant took up residency in the car. Darn little buggers are everywhere. RAID to the rescue!!!

Once I get the pan finished and back on the engine, I'll be able to install it in the car. (A few weeks from now at the rate I am going.)

 

So cool!

 

Tijoe that super cool stuff! I wish I had more mechanical skills. My brother is a car mechanic and I'm impressed with some of the stuff he does. I should have learned how to work on cars from him when I was younger and we still lived together. Anyway, I'm re-organizing the S-Type FAQ section right now. I've been mulling over creating a section that specifically has custom projects in it. I'll know more when I get further along organizing everything and get some input from other members on what they prefer. There's always the option to add or modify when done anyway. But I definitely think there could / should be a place for really cool mods people have done for the S-Type. I agree that there is a LOT of info right now on the S-Type specific forums and a little cumbersome to go through. Even using the search function. That's one of the reasons that h20boy asked me to put it in some semblance of order. I'll be checking on the updates as the car comes along.

 

I can't believe almost a month has past since my last post. I am still waiting on a shop to do the final welding on my oil pan. During the past month I've been researching the electrical/controls needed to get the car running. The electrical controls will end up being by far a larger project than the mechanical installation of the engine and supporting parts. Lots of money to be spent on supporting electrical hardware, and hours of reverse engineering of PIDs and messages. Gm has made the swap's control system even more challenging because my E38 controller uses GM's new security features of the new GMLAN Group A architecture.

It's all fun...

 

The LS3 engine/trans is installed in the car. Now the real work begins.

- It seemed to take forever to get the pan welded and ready for installation and back on the engine.
- Once the trans was bolted back onto the engine, the assembly slid under the body and was lifted into position easy as 1-2-3.

I am amazed at how much room there is to fit this engine.

- Now comes the time to spend more money. Custom radiators, drive shaft and all the parts to get the engine integrated to the car.

- Then the dreaded electrical integration.

Joe

 

Continued good luck on your project. It takes some major ***** to attempt such an undertaking and I have enjoyed reading about your efforts. I hope it eventually works out for you. Keep us posted....

 

Greetings Joe,

Haven't heard from you in a while... Was wondering the other day what happened with this.

That's great news that the engine / trans are in the car. Other than modifying the pan, and I'm assuming fabbing up motor mounts - did you draw them in cad / soldiworks btw? And a trans mount, was there any other mods that had to happen or be done with the car?

Keep us posted.

George

 

Quick update.

- I have a custom Griffin radiator with dual 11" Spal fans on order. 3 week lead time. It will be a direct bolt in with mounts for the A/C radiator and center pwr. steering/oil cooler.
- I have been contacting custom drive shaft companies trying to find or fabricate fixed flanges/u-joint yokes for the TR6060 Tremec trans and the 8" Ford/Jaguar differential. The one that can get me flanges, will also get to build the drive shaft.
- I have been working on mounting a GTO shift lever assembly. The stock cast aliminum Camaro shifter assembly sits 1/2" biased to driver side, and 1" back from the center of the shifter opening in the jag. The GTO is a longer assembly and I had to shorten it about 3". The rear of the OEM transmission flange/torque coupler is very close to the bottom side of the shift lever.
- The lower steering rod u-joint is rubbing the lower outside of the stock LS3 exhaust manifold. I have some grinding to do, or this could be a good excuse to put headers on the engine.
- The position I mounted the engine is perfect for how the OEM cats fit beneath the car. I have purchased almost all the 304SS pipe and bends I need to route new exhaust.
- I have a new fuel delivery system set-up in the car, but am re-evaluating what I've done, and am thinking about installing a Camaro fuel control module and supporting wiring/parts, rather than what I have already installed.
- I am debating what to do about ABS and TCS. I've been looking into the possibility of converting the car to the 2010 Camaro ABS/TCS system. Lots of work involved to do this. New GM cars are using more reliable magnetic encoders and inductive pick-ups that generate pulses used directly by the controller. Rather than an analog signal that has to be converted to a digital signal. (The reluctor rings on the Jag real axles would have to be replaced with custom fabricated magnetic rings, and the front hub have to be updated to an assembly with built in magnetic reluctor seals.)
- I am spending way to many hours figuring out and comparing S-type and Camaro harnesses, mapping out what I need to do. It is looking like it may be easiest to use a Camaro main fuse box, BCM and harness connectors. I wont have to do a lot of discrete wiring for the engine harness, and it seems easier to cut the Jag wires and splice them into the Camaro harnesses that I need.

Enjoy the day!

 

What is your total $ expenditure on the project as it sits right now?

 

Gulp!

Still under $15K. My initial estimate was to come it in under $15K, but I bet I'll reach closer to $20K by the time it is running. (But I paid a lot for a 2010 LS3 engine and trans with less than 3000 miles on it.)

At some point in time I'll have to spend another $5K to $6K on HPTuners and Interpid control systems to support the electrical systems/programming. I don't count the tools as part of the costs of the car, since I'll use them again on other projects.