S-type 2000 alternator failure ?
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
S-type 2000 alternator failure ?
Hello everybody and thank you to accept me as a newbie. Please note that english is not my mother tongue, so grammatical and semantical errors.
Short story: I have an s-type 2000 - 156k kms
Dead today. No real problems history.
Smelled some strong odour in the highway (that means front of the car), like brakes failure (but in that case, those were not the culprits, by experience - different odor also).
When I was in the streets, I had suddenly errors on my dash.
From first to last: abs and control enabled/disabled (spontaneously changing), rpm turned to zero while driving, battery indicator, then something like chrismas tree....
The motor was still running but pretty irregulary. I safely parked my car and switched off. End of the story: no more switch on since then.
I had to tow my car and the guy tried to bring me some energy with his tools (plural, he used 3) to allow me to close the roof and the windows: no luck.
At home, I tested the battery voltage (the battery is new - about 6 months) and it was almost 0V. I estimated manually that the battery was kind of hot (hotter than expected)
Removed the battery and the voltage raised to 8V, it's now charging...
I read a lot about jaguar batteries failures, but I think this is not the case, mostly because of the odor and the related problems minutes later.
I put a charged battery in the car to test the lights (and close the roof... rain is coming today - how lucky): no luck`: no sign anywhere: no dash lights, no lights, no moving windows. Like an instant dead.
My spontaneous opinion (feel free to deny this): the alternator or [insert anything else] made a short circuit somewhere and short-circuited my battery.
Now my question(s)
I like this car (never old style after 18 years) and I like to drive it. WAF is high. even the mpg are, you know, very low. No real motor troubles (changed maf, starter, oil, regular stuff - tires/struts). Becomes pretty rusty (chassis and around the wheels). A/C is dead and not reparable. recent obd error (P1388 - timing advance). So, is it worth it to solve that problem if not obvious (alternator dead - will see my mech tomorrow) ?
Electrical problems are nightmares and you can spend thousands by changing parts after parts, without solving the problem.
You opinion is welcome
Regards
Mike
Short story: I have an s-type 2000 - 156k kms
Dead today. No real problems history.
Smelled some strong odour in the highway (that means front of the car), like brakes failure (but in that case, those were not the culprits, by experience - different odor also).
When I was in the streets, I had suddenly errors on my dash.
From first to last: abs and control enabled/disabled (spontaneously changing), rpm turned to zero while driving, battery indicator, then something like chrismas tree....
The motor was still running but pretty irregulary. I safely parked my car and switched off. End of the story: no more switch on since then.
I had to tow my car and the guy tried to bring me some energy with his tools (plural, he used 3) to allow me to close the roof and the windows: no luck.
At home, I tested the battery voltage (the battery is new - about 6 months) and it was almost 0V. I estimated manually that the battery was kind of hot (hotter than expected)
Removed the battery and the voltage raised to 8V, it's now charging...
I read a lot about jaguar batteries failures, but I think this is not the case, mostly because of the odor and the related problems minutes later.
I put a charged battery in the car to test the lights (and close the roof... rain is coming today - how lucky): no luck`: no sign anywhere: no dash lights, no lights, no moving windows. Like an instant dead.
My spontaneous opinion (feel free to deny this): the alternator or [insert anything else] made a short circuit somewhere and short-circuited my battery.
Now my question(s)
I like this car (never old style after 18 years) and I like to drive it. WAF is high. even the mpg are, you know, very low. No real motor troubles (changed maf, starter, oil, regular stuff - tires/struts). Becomes pretty rusty (chassis and around the wheels). A/C is dead and not reparable. recent obd error (P1388 - timing advance). So, is it worth it to solve that problem if not obvious (alternator dead - will see my mech tomorrow) ?
Electrical problems are nightmares and you can spend thousands by changing parts after parts, without solving the problem.
You opinion is welcome
Regards
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 27,519
Likes: 4,910
From: Yorkshire, England
The battery may or may not be OK. If fully charged and left to stand (disconnected) over night, it should read at least 12.6V.
It would help when you connect the battery if you can watch the current (amps) and see if there is a big value (watch for a few minutes). If so, there is a short circuit.
If not, you can follow the guide for a non-starting car. E.g. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
There is a huge amount of useful data on this site and also on JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
It would help when you connect the battery if you can watch the current (amps) and see if there is a big value (watch for a few minutes). If so, there is a short circuit.
If not, you can follow the guide for a non-starting car. E.g. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
There is a huge amount of useful data on this site and also on JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
Hello Mr V8,
thank you for your reply. I charged my battery along the night. The voltage was 12.1V but the full depletion was maybe a sign of not holding more right now.
I hooked the battery and, yeah, some lights. And I was able to shut down the roof and the windows (after a long night of rain... hopefully without any damage after the right protection - aka garbage bags) !
I was also able to run the motor, that's a nice think to know, that means the starter is ok, but the smell remains somewehere. Heard a unsual noise round the motor. the alternator belt is running fine (at first sight), no blocked gears and no belt slip.
The battery voltage after few minutes dropped to 11.25V. Even I stopped the car 2 times, I was able to restart the motor again and the idle was ok.
I left the battery in that state and left it connected to my car to see if the voltage will drop faster (probably). No alarm set or whatever to reduce the power consumption.
Is it a good idea to exchange the battery with a new one to see what happend ?
And related to what I read on jag forums, S-type seems to be batteries hungry. Even a new one can be decimed in a quick. This one has only 6 months (daily use, no winter) !
But the remaining smell scares me a little bit. Is it possible to share here a small vid of my running motor ?
Mike
thank you for your reply. I charged my battery along the night. The voltage was 12.1V but the full depletion was maybe a sign of not holding more right now.
I hooked the battery and, yeah, some lights. And I was able to shut down the roof and the windows (after a long night of rain... hopefully without any damage after the right protection - aka garbage bags) !
I was also able to run the motor, that's a nice think to know, that means the starter is ok, but the smell remains somewehere. Heard a unsual noise round the motor. the alternator belt is running fine (at first sight), no blocked gears and no belt slip.
The battery voltage after few minutes dropped to 11.25V. Even I stopped the car 2 times, I was able to restart the motor again and the idle was ok.
I left the battery in that state and left it connected to my car to see if the voltage will drop faster (probably). No alarm set or whatever to reduce the power consumption.
Is it a good idea to exchange the battery with a new one to see what happend ?
And related to what I read on jag forums, S-type seems to be batteries hungry. Even a new one can be decimed in a quick. This one has only 6 months (daily use, no winter) !
But the remaining smell scares me a little bit. Is it possible to share here a small vid of my running motor ?
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum. Your English is fine, even better than most, so no worries there.
Your scenario may seem horrible, but it sounds like an ordinary failure of the charging system. Unfortunately, these cars are not good at warning us, only turning on the little red light after it’s way too late. It sounds after your charging system failed, the battery then got run way down, but you had no way of knowing at the time.
The smell: Was that acrid electrical smell, kind of like burning plastic? That was probably the alternator as it failed. Or was it more like burning rubber? I’m wondering if the drive belt was slipping really badly and that is what you smelled instead.
You had worried that electrical problems were tough to diagnose, costing lots of money. Actually, it’s just the opposite. You’ve got a hard failure that should be easy for any competent shop to figure out.
If the alternator is bad, ask for an OEM replacement. Most aftermarket brands will charge okay, but don’t have the proper control module. The red light won’t go out without the OEM module to communicate with the rest of the car. Some folks have reported good results swapping the OEM module into an aftermarket alternator, but that assumes the module is still good.
Your scenario may seem horrible, but it sounds like an ordinary failure of the charging system. Unfortunately, these cars are not good at warning us, only turning on the little red light after it’s way too late. It sounds after your charging system failed, the battery then got run way down, but you had no way of knowing at the time.
The smell: Was that acrid electrical smell, kind of like burning plastic? That was probably the alternator as it failed. Or was it more like burning rubber? I’m wondering if the drive belt was slipping really badly and that is what you smelled instead.
You had worried that electrical problems were tough to diagnose, costing lots of money. Actually, it’s just the opposite. You’ve got a hard failure that should be easy for any competent shop to figure out.
If the alternator is bad, ask for an OEM replacement. Most aftermarket brands will charge okay, but don’t have the proper control module. The red light won’t go out without the OEM module to communicate with the rest of the car. Some folks have reported good results swapping the OEM module into an aftermarket alternator, but that assumes the module is still good.
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Almost forgot: Be sure to begin any electrical troubleshooting with a fully charged battery. Disconnect the battery in case there’s an unexpected drain, and put it on an automatic charger overnight.
Getting run down like that can be tough on any battery. If there is any doubt about the battery’s condition, have it tested. Most auto parts stores will test it for free.
Getting run down like that can be tough on any battery. If there is any doubt about the battery’s condition, have it tested. Most auto parts stores will test it for free.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
Hi kr98664,
thank you for your prompt reply.
Since my last message, I went to the garage where I purchased my battery earlier this year: even the voltage was low (partially discharged), the test with the special meter leads to a working battery.
That leads again to an alternator failure. You message put some cream on my shoulder (this is not a big problem).
The smell was mostly like burned cable and not burned belt and I checked the belt later: looks ok with no marks or slip.
I was able to ignite everything and the motor run normally (except one strange sound - not a hiss- that I've not heard before, but again I'm more a driver than a fine-tuner), several time.
My kitten is now on charge for the night...
I'll manage to check youtube videos this night about alternators ;-)
regards,
Mike
thank you for your prompt reply.
Since my last message, I went to the garage where I purchased my battery earlier this year: even the voltage was low (partially discharged), the test with the special meter leads to a working battery.
That leads again to an alternator failure. You message put some cream on my shoulder (this is not a big problem).
The smell was mostly like burned cable and not burned belt and I checked the belt later: looks ok with no marks or slip.
I was able to ignite everything and the motor run normally (except one strange sound - not a hiss- that I've not heard before, but again I'm more a driver than a fine-tuner), several time.
My kitten is now on charge for the night...
I'll manage to check youtube videos this night about alternators ;-)
regards,
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Oh yeah, one more thing:
Carefully inspect the wiring at the alternator, especially the large wire by itself. The wiring is prone to heat damage, specifically at the crimp for the large wire. Repair pigtails are available if you find damage, so don't panic.
Carefully inspect the wiring at the alternator, especially the large wire by itself. The wiring is prone to heat damage, specifically at the crimp for the large wire. Repair pigtails are available if you find damage, so don't panic.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
Hello folks,
Thank you again for your replies.
After my own tests, I went to my garage (with a set of 2 fully charged batteries in parallel to be able to drive few kilometers) and the guy retested it. It was obviously the alternator and just that.
Replaced it with a new one and voila, my kitten is on the road again (with music in my head), as before...
Still old but far better than the honda the man offered me while repairing my car !
happy story ;-)
Mike
Thank you again for your replies.
After my own tests, I went to my garage (with a set of 2 fully charged batteries in parallel to be able to drive few kilometers) and the guy retested it. It was obviously the alternator and just that.
Replaced it with a new one and voila, my kitten is on the road again (with music in my head), as before...
Still old but far better than the honda the man offered me while repairing my car !
happy story ;-)
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,086
Likes: 3,364
From: home
Glad it's fixed but just a comment about alternators?
We have found that after market units usually cause problems and don't last. Was your replacement a factory alternator?
Just something to watch out for.
.
.
.
We have found that after market units usually cause problems and don't last. Was your replacement a factory alternator?
Just something to watch out for.
.
.
.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
I don't know yet and I need to ask more about this (or look under the hood).
The mechanic told me that he replaced the dead one with a new one (including diode) and not a refurbished or OEM one. Don't know the brand yet, but will ask him soon.
cost : 400$ cad (about 235 gbp)
Mike
The mechanic told me that he replaced the dead one with a new one (including diode) and not a refurbished or OEM one. Don't know the brand yet, but will ask him soon.
cost : 400$ cad (about 235 gbp)
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
Karl,
all indicators are off and all seems fine. The battery voltage is steady 12.6V and higher when driving, except maybe a little unusual sizzle or hiss (will ask the mechanic about the belt tension) not coming from the alternator (bottow left) but from the upper right side. Can upload a mp3 somewhere (dropbox) if interested.
Mike
all indicators are off and all seems fine. The battery voltage is steady 12.6V and higher when driving, except maybe a little unusual sizzle or hiss (will ask the mechanic about the belt tension) not coming from the alternator (bottow left) but from the upper right side. Can upload a mp3 somewhere (dropbox) if interested.
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Mike, that seems quite low. 12.6V is what you might see on a battery at rest. You should be seeing around 13.5V while driving. 12.6V isn't really charging much, if at all.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
Some info is missing ;-)
So, I rephrase the sentence: 12.6V at rest and motor not running, (with the battery who was fully depleted when the alternator failed), Higher voltage (don't know exactly, but around 13.5 for sure as I remember) at idle or gently driving at 2000 rpm.
Mike
So, I rephrase the sentence: 12.6V at rest and motor not running, (with the battery who was fully depleted when the alternator failed), Higher voltage (don't know exactly, but around 13.5 for sure as I remember) at idle or gently driving at 2000 rpm.
Mike
Veteran Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,906
Likes: 2,314
From: Oregon
Some info is missing ;-)
So, I rephrase the sentence: 12.6V at rest and motor not running, (with the battery who was fully depleted when the alternator failed), Higher voltage (don't know exactly, but around 13.5 for sure as I remember) at idle or gently driving at 2000 rpm.
Mike
So, I rephrase the sentence: 12.6V at rest and motor not running, (with the battery who was fully depleted when the alternator failed), Higher voltage (don't know exactly, but around 13.5 for sure as I remember) at idle or gently driving at 2000 rpm.
Mike
You may want to pick up an inexpensive voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette lighter. As you have already learned, the stock warning light is basically useless, coming on only well after the battery has been run down after a charging system failure.
The plug-in meter I have also has a chime that sounds if the voltage drops below a certain point. It should give plenty of warning, unlike the factory warning.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 32
Likes: 4
From: montreal
In fact I have a wifi obd2 meter with some android app (torque pro). Very useful but I don't use it all the time, only when I have problems or to check some parameters. Will probably put a simple voltmeter on the dash. Thanks again.
Last edited by ppz1961; Sep 1, 2018 at 05:42 PM. Reason: added picture
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jjohns26
S-Type / S type R Supercharged V8 ( X200 )
16
Jan 9, 2013 05:13 AM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
