Got it and thanks. I am almost 99.9 % sure that I have the latest, based on what Jag has on record and what the TSB's indicate.


I will get the fluid change and clear adaptions and go about driving around like an old old man.

TBB

 

Thanks. As I figured, but still depend on the experts here.

TBB

 

Don, maybe we should come up with a "safer" term for gently getting all of the old fluid out and replaced with fresh. You and I mention a transmission flush, and we're thinking the genteel method, the equivalent of an Air Supply concert with Christopher Cross as the opening act. Where did I leave my Izod polo shirt?

Meanwhile, somebody else reads this but isn't planning to do it themselves. They take the car to Gyp-Me Lube and request a transmission flush. The kid behind the counter? His eyes light up because he works on commission. He flips on the supplemental generator but still the lights dim as he fires up the Trans-Vac 2000 and maneuvers it towards the poor, unsuspecting car... This is the equivalent of a Motley Crüe concert, opened by Gwar.

 

Karl,

I'm still trying to get the imagined taste of deep-fried worms out of my mouth, so I'm really not ready to have my ears-brain preoccupied with dated, though great, musical memories!

I use the term "fluid flush" in contrast to "drain and fill" in part because "flush" connotes the removal of all that bad, old fluid. But I understand the risks of misinterpretation. What do you think? "Fluid replacement?" I hesitate to even suggest "fluid exchange" for fear of where you may go with that. Let's be adults, shall we?

I know, let's put it up to a vote!

I have photos of an inexpensive apparatus I came up with for flushing the fluid on the 6HP26, and if I can just find time to organize and upload the photos it will give a visual reference for the process, whatever everyone else votes to call it.

Cheers,

Don

 

Why start now?

 

A couple of thoughts and question. First almost any fluid, that is quality, will be better than the current fluid I have. One might wonder what the viscosity might be of 107 k fluid? Since the fluid helps to create pressure within the tyranny, would not a slight higher viscosity create a touch more pressure that might benefit an older tyranny? And how is 40 degrees C a relevant temp to judge viscosity, as the normal operating temp is in the 70-75 degree area? Do we know how they compare at the normal operating temperatures?

Also just my curious nature, since you appear to have transmission knowledge and one of your response seemed to indicate you have worked a lot with transmission- are you in the transmission business?

I wrote ZF USA and gave them a very detailed symptom list of what was happening and will share their response, once I receive it. Should at least be interesting.

TBB

 

This is the response back from ZF (my original letter is below this).

------------------------------



for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:



The adaption process could take up to 500 miles if you are adapting through everyday driving. If you're still experiencing shift issues, I'd suggest finding a place or time you'd be able to clear the adaptions once again and start over..



Please reply to this mail using the “Reply” button of you mail client – DO NOT CHANGE THE E-MAIL SUBJECT.



For further questions or updates please contact ZF Services North America, LLC., telephone: +1 847 478 6868.

Always provide your request ID when contacting us regarding this request, please.




Kind regards



Your ZF Service Desk



ZF Friedrichshafen AG

88038 Friedrichshafen,Germany

----------------------------
I further asked:
Thank you. It seems to get better with each drive, although I am reluctant to let it shift at a lower level of rpms. Does my description of the issue sound more like a driving adaption issue than anything else?Here is my main question as of now. Should I drive it the 500 miles and then change fluid/filter and give the adaptions time to take or should I change fluid/filter and then drive the 500 miles.-----------Response:If you weren't experiencing any issues before the adaptions were cleared, I'd have to say it is related to the adaption. If anything, I'd suggest making sure the fluid level is correct and the fluid is clean..----------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Orginal Letter to ZF:


I understand from the Jaguar forum that you have been helpful to us with ZF transmission. I have a simple question and your help is very much appreciated.I have a 2005 S-Type 3.0 with the ZF 6HP26 transmission. The only previous so-called problem was the "lurch" which a flash update solved at about 35K (I had bought the car at 31k).I tend to drive lightly, not a runner and gunner and very rarely ever go into passing gear or anything of that nature and maybe have used the sport mode 5% of the time since I have had the car.I am Dallas, so we do have hot weather and bad traffic. However no other problems. I have 107,000 on the car and never had a fluid change with Jag's theory of so-called lifetime fluid.Last week the adaptions got cleared clear on the TCM. I am well aware (now) that with old fluid that is not the best thing to do..So I have attempted to let the TCM re-learn (it has been driven only about 104 miles since the clearing and I know no harsh anything, no kick-downs, no s mode- drive like an old man and get some coasting to a stop from 50mph) and tried it with the SDD, but that seemed tricky with one person and traffic. Since the clearing of the TCM adaptions have occurred, I have only had one problem. All the shifting from 1-2 and 2-3 and 4-5-6 and downshifts have been fine. However when I do a normal driving start 1-2 and 2-3 seem to take place in the 1800-2100 rpm. If I let it stay in that range for shifting 3-4, the engine wants to rev up to a higher rpm and then will act like it buckles 2 or 3 times and throws a gearbox fault. I get NO CEL or any codes, permanent or pending at all.If I start the car a touch faster and have 1-2 and 2-3 and 3-4 shift in the 2400-2800 rpm- everything is fine and smooth.The suggestion is that I get my fluid (with the right ZF Lifeguard or Mercon SP fluid) , filter and sleeve replaced, clear the adaptions and start over again. (I have heard from senior Jag techs that the 3-4 or E clutch is the hardest to get right).My other assumption is that when the TCM was cleared, that is own default map assumes a number of things, including that have very good or newer fluid and since I do not- it is having trouble at a lower rpm of getting the clutch pressures right. Apparently over the years and I only drive now about 7k a year that the TCM learned to adapt to the aging fluid slowly and since I have old fluid now, the TCM is having to work its way toward the very limits of its adaptation capacity.Will new fluid allow it to adapt more comfortably within its pre-programmed limits? Bear in mind- no problem at all with tranny, adaptions got cleared and now this problem and no codes ect.Or do you have other thoughts or suggestions. I can drive for the most part in the higher shifting range, but know in certain traffic that may be difficult. Or does the fluid change seem to be a good answer?One final thought- given enough time, will the transmission/TCM adapt back to the older fluid.Thanks a heapTom

 

Here is where am. I decided to give it 500 miles as suggested by Brutal and ZF (they said that unless I had trouble before the clearing of adaptions- it should adjust back to normal over time) Now at 425 miles and the transmission is back to normal shifting and frankly with new adaptions a touch crisper. I have not yet changed the fluid, but wanted to see if it would adjust back on it's own and it has. Now I will change fluid, (Mercon SP) filter , sleeve and not clear the adaptions and just see how it responds. I even bought 21 of the T 40 bolt/screws for the people that will do the change along with a new fill plug.

It started out with trying to get from 3 to 4 and would try to engage (only at lower rpms- 1800-2000) and would not without some stumbles after sift revs and a gearbox fault. That slowly changed to no stumbles, but like it was searching for the gear and if I took my foot off the accelerator- then it would shift. All the other up and downshifts were fine except for 3-4. Finally I did not have to take my foot off the accelerator and would get a shift flair (a slight rise in rpm) and those only occurred at lower rpm (below 2000 rpm) shifts- higher was fine. The shift flairs became smaller and smaller until they just disappeared on the next drive cycle. I also did some manual shifting and that was always fine in all shifts. So now my tranny is back to where it was and with new adaptions and life is not so much trouble with it as it was before.

The new fluid and filter will only do good and help further. I am more than hesitant to clear the adaptions again and unless I can feel the need or something appears not quite right, will not update any flashes. I want to leave well enough alone.

That is the gig- so as to speak.

Later and any thoughts? and thanks for your previous help.

Tom in Dallas/Plano

 

edit: Just to state I have found on ebay the original(?) software used to talk to the car. It can install on a computer that runs Windows XT Professional only! I have found an old laptop, tiny, and spoken to my computer friend, who will load the operating system. Now looking for the charger for the computer!! And I will need some sort of cable. etc. That is where I stand at the moment!

This is an interesting thread. I seem to have some issues with my gearbox, and they mainly are the occasional reluctance to change under light load, and a thump, when the change occurs, unless you lift the foot quickly. Also a light variations of revs, as if something (a clutch) is not grabbing 100%.
The fluid is almost new, as the car has been at a repair shop with a gearbox problem before I got it.
Under load, it shifts fine. I am a careful driver, and when I sense/see the revs vary, I ease off. We are talking the rev counter moving maybe 200 revs at about 1500 revs, in some intermediary gear(s), as if it is trying to shift?, but not doing it. Not really noticeable for most people, I would guess, but now I do notice! Also it sounds as if there is a very faint "rumble" at times and maybe a bit of vibration. (Maybe I am just getting paranoid?) it is really very very subtle, but my ears and senses are getting hyper sensitive!
I think it is mainly an adaption problem, but don't know. Thus these questions.
1: If I want to "talk" to the gearbox, what options do I have?
2. Can you perform a re-set without diagnostic tools?, of which I have none.
3. The re-learning (without programming) of the box, just driving a 500 Mile cycle, is it successful?
4. Can cables and programs for BMW (cars that use the same box) be used.
5. If I have to buy something to "talk" to the car in general and the box in particular, what should I get?

thanks in advance.!
(I will get from the UK as a first option, unless there are some good reasons not to. Living in South Africa.)

 

Sounds like you having some shift flairs. Jag requires the Mongoose cable, but that can be had for a decent price- I will leave a link below. Once you have the SDD software you can then talk to the TCM. You may find there is a software upgrade, but according to Jag guidelines it is the golden rule to clear adaptions before upgrading. You failed to state what car you have and that may vary what the model number of the ZF transmission. The SDD, version 1.33 should be fine unless your car is newer that 2009. I have a separate laptop I use for nothing else, use 32 Win7 and a solid state drive and boosted the ram. Set the time by .bat file to always stay the same or otherwise you have problems and absolutely after you have it set turn off all networking and never try to go on the Internet again.

Attached also is the Jag Transmission troubleshoot guide.
Free Shipping Jaguar and Land Rover JLR Mangoose SDD V157 Cable

This is a good article about the ZF. However the guy tha wrote insisted I should rebuild the transmission instead of getting the adaptions set and he was more than wrong on that matter and a jerk to boot, but still good info.
Everything about your ZF 6HP26, 6HP19, 6HP28 transmission issues | BMW LOGIC7

Also attached is a TSB that talks about reprogramming,but more importantly walks you through the adaptation cycle and that is part of th SDD Jag software, but it is a bitch to do and takes 2 guys.. Brutal, one of the recognized experts on this site and take his word for whatever on Jags, indicates they don't do that much anymore an just drive the 500 miles. There is lots of acceleration and coasting involved and other people have many posts on the issue. you can find.



Tom in Dallas/Plano

 

Thanks!
I will go through all the info. I have now found the charger, the computer works, and it even looks as if the battery works. It has been standing in a box for about 2 years, I guess. But a supersmart small ASUS Eee 1001 PXD. Nice and very compact. So ideal for taking in the car.
I will get it re-set as suggested.
The car is a 2003 MY, so it looks as if the cable is for a later car.
I certainly hope it is an adjustment problem, but we will see.

 

I am sure the adaption process will be the same as well as troubleshooting. From 2003 to 2008 all the S-types used the ZF 6HP26 transmission.

TBB

 

so I just changed my fluid a few months ago and I cleared the adaptives after and then went on several drives as described above- low rpm. No wot. Easing it along.

at first I thought my trans was messed up as it clearly shifted wacky but sure enough, in a relatively short time it continually got better and and started shifting perfectly. So it does work!