OEMs are very concerned about their product beyond the warranty period contrary to oft repeated myth. Not much chance of getting any repeat business if it falls apart before the other OEMs. Then word gets around etc. etc.

 

Then they should be worried about the valley pipe.

Except they don't make STRs or even S-Types any more.

There again, I gather the pipe fails on the XF, XJ, ...

Sure don't seem that worried...........

 

Just for my own education- what the average life span of the pipe and what is the approximate cost to replace?

Do other comparable vehicles from other OEMs have similar irritants, meaning moderately expensive repairs during the latter part of the vehicles life span? I know the answer is 'yes'- there's no vehicle I know that doesn't have at least one feature that makes them less than perfect. Why should Jag be different?

 

I tend to buy cars about 4yrs old and keep them 7-10 years; this is the first which has such a waiting hugely expensive time bomb.

Time to repair and cost seems huge. Many hours labour, which is a real nightmare here. There are posts on here if you care to see what people have posted. Will be far more costly here as labour is about double USA cost.

No-one I know with any car of any make has such an equivalent disaster waiting to happen. Maybe they do and don't know, though!

The nearest similarish item on a previous car was a strangely-routed hose (sound familiar?) but even now at 16+ years and over 10 on the site for enthusiasts no-one's actually reported having to replace the hose concerned. Made better, I suppose.

Understand I am reasonably sure Jaguar did not realise they'd created this mess when they built my era car - only a few years into their first SC AJV8 - so I'm not blaming them for my car but just want a cost-effective work-around.

(I kinda blame them that they are still fitting an apparently no better hose now on XFR etc but it makes no odds to me as I've no plan to buy any of those cars anyway.)

Somewhat unfortunately I'd already got the car when I found out about this but then it wasn't very old and the problem seemingly hadn't surfaced as I did extensive reading before I bought.

What I think extraordinary is that some members here think it makes sense to beat up on people afflicted by this instead of being helpful, or beating up on Jag or shutting up. Apart from oil threads this site is usually pleasant. Not this thread, though.

 

There's no reason for any thread to get personal, this one included. The old rule of 'attack the idea, not the person' always applies. I see nothing wrong with a technical debate even if the participants are 180* apart at all times.

I've owned nothing but high end/semi-exotic vehicles since the early 80s I guess. No two of them happened to come from the same OEM. Not one of these vehicles was free of an Achilles heel of some sort, whether it was transmission, engine, frame rust, electronics etc. etc. The decision had to be made with each at a certain point as to whether it was cost effective to fix it or let it go.

It seems a 'show stopper' with the -R is the valley pipe. Certainly if nothing is done the pipe will let go sooner or later and probably take the engine with it. Does the action of converting the cooling system to a 'pressureless' type obviate the need to change the valley pipe? I have serious doubts and believe it would be foolish to put it to the test given the probably outcome if it all goes wrong.

I'd gladly pay the $1000 quoted above to have a garage replace the pipe every X number years rather than some of the bills I was faced with on other cars when they ran into their own show stoppers.

Each to his own.

 

I can't see it being only $1K here. Double it should be the right kind of figure. I'll call around some time next year if I have a time I could be without a car. Sadly the fix isn't one they can do while you wait due to the hours involved, or so it seems.

I've not had as exciting cars as you so this is a new issue. I don't plan another similar so it's almost for sure the only kind of thing that will bite me (famous last words).

 

It's not just the STR valley pipe of concern here. Jaguar's "showstopper" in our era of cars seems to be the cooling system. Whether it's the plastic coolant expansion tank or leaks from the various and sundry coolant hoses and clamps, if you don't keep a close eye (and nose) on your cooling system as the years roll by you may indeed lose your engine. My wife's XK8 has the same weakness. The plastic coolant expansion tank fails or various hoses (particularly what's called the "octopus hose" cluster) fail and if you're whizzing down the highway at 80 mph when the weak link lets go, in many cases you're done for before you can react....

In 45 years of driving I've had other vehicles with some rather serious potential design/materials flaws, but never one this potentially destructive. As a result, the first thing I visually inspect each weekend when I'm doing my routine checks is the cooling system. On both my S-Type and my wife's XK8. It's simply standard procedure for me based upon what could happen if I don't stay on top of it....

 

This whole discussion has at least given me a much more positive feeling about this pressure less system. Just the thought that I don’t need to worry about a rupture, being it a hose, the coolant tank or a connection makes it a much bigger plus then I would have given it for when I chose to go for it.

Even though there would be some extra pressure due to pumping as Mikey suggests (where I think it is very low as it is not just push from one side, but also sucking in from the other), the pressure differential would still be 15 psi, and 15 psi lower pressure in my book is still very considerable.


Anyway, have driven now about 600 miles, and I can’t really see any difference in operation, so the engine coolant is not hotter. I have some thermal strips on different places to see how it will develop over time when I crank up the power more.

Before the job, one of my 2 pipes (the 4.2 cars have 1) that go under the supercharger was leaking somewhat at the connectors to the octopus piping when the system was pressurized. I had to add some fluid now and then to compensate for the loss. Now with the Evans it is not leaking anymore, although I am not saying that it was wise not to see if I could fix/replace the o-ring. Am curious how long this will last.

Much more tests to do the coming months, please do not expect to many updates.

 

Way to go JagV8, for your simple but accurate analysis.
Way to go, Jon89, for spelling out the entire Jag coolant problem.
Way to go, Avos, because your last post has really got me thinking - a pressurized hose that used to leak is now not leaking when pressureless! When and if you confirm that, and see no significant increase in IAT, I'm ready to go.

 

Have just measured my water content, and it is about 0.5%

Lets see how that develops over time.

 

Sounds high(ish). I saw where Evans recommends a pre-treatment to remove as much water as possible.

Did you just drain and refill with Evans, or did you drain, refill with Evans pre-treatment, drain again and then refill with Evans?

 

I did use some prep fluid, but not completely for the full system as recommended, so that is why I still have some water in there (probably some from the radiator and heat system in the car. The engine was completely emptied though.

I actually thought it was really low actually, and I think it will be hard to get lower, but I am no expert in flushing systems, so I may have not done it the best that could.

As Evans finds 3% still acceptable, I take it there is enough headroom.

 

Agreed on the cooling system (in general) being the most prominent flaw on our Jags. Others may argue that an ignored ZF transmission will be even more expensive to put right, or possibly even the possibility of aging electronics sidelining an otherwise healthy car, but the discussion here is about reducing the probability of the cooling system being the cause of the car's retirement.

Much as we've all learned that changing the fluid at 80ishK miles seems to avoid heartache with the transmission, it seems to me that swapping out the cooling system components that have a limited lifespan would be a better course of action to head off problems rather than hoping a pressureless system does the trick.

Being that most of the members here are very conservative in their views of vehicle maintenance and operation (oil change intervals, type, octane ratings and Satan ethanol) I'm surprised to see what appears to be a bit of a cavalier approach to the cooling system.

 

I'm wondering how many hours labour it would be. More cost than buying another car?

 

Good point. The valley pipe is reportedly around $27. but access labour drives total replacement cost to $1000+ if the work is carried out by others.

Most of us are DIY enthusiasts (vs. drop it off at the main dealer when the ashtrays are full types) so in fairness if any comparisons are being done, labour should be counted as either zero for DIY or at typical dealer rates of XXX per hour.

Wonder what a dealer would charge to convert a car to a pressureless system and flush and fill it per instructions with waterless coolant?

 

I DIY when I can. Valley pipe is far beyond what I can do.

 

Don't forget to add the costs for all the gaskets, risk of damaging ageing parts, and the complexity of taking of the supercharger.

If you really think that anyone that can flush a coolant system can also take of the supercharger, I think you are over simplifying the work involved.

 

Just trying to compare apples with apples. The cost of a valley pipe change is more than just the pipe. The cost of a pressureless/waterless coolant system is more than just that of the coolant.

 

What else is there besides the coolant? Is it horribly expensive or what?

 

I didn't know that, thank you. Sounds like 0.5% is perfectly fine.

I checked some prices and, the approx cost of 2 gallons pre-treatment is $90-100, about the same as 2 gallons of the actual fluid. Total $160-200. Can't imagine more than 1 hour of labour if flushing and refilling is too complex to handle!