Good afternoon Team, I have been considering replacing my old Lucas distributor and ignition system with a 123 unit. Contacting 123 from Australia seems difficult as they haven't responded to my messages on their website, and although there appear to be many 6-cylinder replacements, I haven't seen any examples of the V12. I suspect the E-Type fraternity have some examples, and advice on the benefits (or not) of the change. Any and all advice welcome. Many thanks, Chris

 

Tt y these guys. Very helpful place:
https://www.normanmotorsltd.com/dab1...12-17948-p.asp

 

I have this for sale in Canada.
It's not programmable like the 123 but it gets rid of the Opus.
Model 770-0300
$110 Aus dollars plus air mail.
Thanks,
Rob

 

Thank You Greg, This looks like the right place, I'll give them a call and see what they advise as the benefits. I had a catch up with Grant last weekend, and he advised that the HE system may be modified for the carb V12. As I am about to replace the HE system on my'88 XJ-S with a Mobek coil over etc. system this may also be an option? Do we have any drawings, advice on repurposing the HE system? Cheers, Chris

 

Thanks, Rob, I have a couple of these systems, tried different models of the Fireball/Crane Cams systems in my V12, unfortunately they did not work very well at all, in fact worse than the REOPUS system I currently have. Interestingly my main failure is the Ballast resistor which fails at most inopportune moments and completely randomly. So much so I carry a spare in the boot that I can unplug/plug on the side of the road. Talking with Grant he had similar experiences, which led to discussing the applicability with the Crane Cams Rep here in Australia when he was the 'Big Cheese" in Jaguar spares. Apparently by design they are susceptible to struggling with a high revving V12. Thanks for your response though much appreciated, and definitely worth a go in perhaps a cooler climate than Australia?

 

The HE distributor can be used with a Pre HE engine as the mechanical advance curve is very similar. However, use a Pre HE EFI vacuum advance capsule, not the vacuum retard from the E Type. Part number is AAU6704. Set the timing at 29 degrees at 3000 rpm, with the vacuum disconnected.

Pipe the vacuum capsule to throttle edge vacuum. Its the top port on the right throttle body on an EFI engine.

Also use the HE coil (ideally a single coil) , the earlier one probably won't work.

 

Many thanks for your assistance. It will be a while before I can get the installation done unfortunately because I have to reassemble the Daimler VDP with the old REOPUS system, get it off the hoist. Bring the XJ-S in and fit the Mobek system, then bring the Daimler back for the change over to the HE CEI system. I need another hoist!

 

I will be very interested to hear yuor opinion about what sort of difference the Mobec system makes (assuming the XJS was in top OEM fettle beforehand?).

 

So will I Greg. I'm hoping for better reliability (getting rid of the amplifier/TPS/distributor/old coil/AAV etc.), easier hot starting, a few more horses, better fuel economy just to name a few. There have been some very good step by step installation posts this forum, so I shall be paying close attention to their journeys and hopefully avoid the pitfalls. Still, it is quite expensive to buy so I'm hoping for profound improvements. My car is not in good fettle having had the engine bay cooking nicely in Darwin for several years and being 37 years old a lot of the 'non-metallic' parts under the bonnet are on their last legs, as would be the electronics and wiring generally. The engine bay wiring is very brittle, and the old vacuum-controlled systems are really past their best noting the technology available today. The body and suspension are quite good, and I have just refreshed the interior with some new seat skins, foam etc. and given the ski jump woodwork an overhaul. So, it is a good car needing a midlife spruce up. These are great vehicles and deserve saving.

 

Ok still trawling the interweb for options. Any advice on the Pertronix 9LU 1122A system. Looks very easy to install and gets quite glowing results on their web page. Looking at circa US $286.95 plus postage. Apparently widely used by the Series 3 E-Type crowd?

 

I have had good success with their distributor on XKE and their Module for the ignition amplifier on XJ6 S3 EFI engine... The Key is to get their recommended lowest ohm ignition coil, as all of the spark improvement comes from the lower ohm coil. The electronics in side of ignition trigger allow the low ohm coil (higher voltage & current flow) to operate with out the system getting fried. You need newer ignition wires for electronic ignition system. Install new cap and rotor for Lucas distributor as the higher energy will find any weakness in old components. When you install, make sure not to get finger prints on inside of cap or on the rotor (spray with contact cleaner if needed) ... I would check with their tech support for recommended spark plug gap... on the 4.2 L6 engine the OEM gap is .035", but with their coil, I went to .040"... from memory the V-12 calls for .025" with OEM distributor and coil.
(Some V-12s used two OEM coils in parallel, you will only use one PerTronix coil, no OEM ignition amplifier and no ballast resister if installed.)
Rgds
David

 

Many thanks David, really good advice. I have just emailed PerTronix in the USA, as our supposed local retailer has failed to get back to me (could be the time of year). Having said that I am unsure if PerTronix mail international, I am about to find out. I intend to order the Ignitor II kit with coil and plug leads, I will use the best distributor cap and rotor I have until I can order a new one. I haven't had much luck with reproduction parts; the quality is noticeably less than the OEM, particularly radiator hoses, universals, and bearings. Although I now order bearings direct from Timken. Once again, many thanks for your advice greatly appreciated.

 

If pertronix don't, Summit do,
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-9lu-1122a

 

Cheers Greg, You are a mine of information. I will call them first thing. Much appreciated. Chris

 

Don't forget the low ohms coil, very important!

 

Thanks Greg yes, I have been reading up on the accessories required, and I think I shall do the full install kit including coil and plug leads. Grant recommended a brand of plug leads (name escapes me at this moment) but I wasn't able to source them. Still PerTronix offer leads with the kit, and I can easily make them up using supplied hardware. David's advice above is also really useful, no impurities in the distributor cap to allow tracking, and a good condition rotor. Dr Doolin, a You Tube channel (a pom in Canada) has some good tips for my engine (although in an E-Type). It actually shows a rotor in very poor condition in use with an MSD ignition. It certainly looks as though the extra voltage has not been kind to the rotor and the end contact looks very pitted.

 

The plug and mixture is what controls the firing voltage, not the coil. If for a particular mixture, it takes 6000V to fire the plug, that's what it will fire at. Doesn't matter if the coil can in theory supply 50,000V, the plug will always fire when the voltage is sufficient to jump the gap. A higher energy system may be able to provide more current and that can cause more erosion of cap and rotor terminals.

 

In my experience, bad rotor wear is cause by plugs going home and cap terminals also being eroded because the cap is too old or the plugs are too old. Any spark jumping a gap is going to gradually erode the terminals involved. Similarly, I believe particularly so on the V12, owners do not change the coils frequently enough (ie they never change them) ditto HT leads.

I did the coils on my car a couple of years ago (the engine was running perfectly) and it made a noticeable differnce to the cold starting and the response of the engine.

 

I wasn't talking about the coil????

 

Quick update. I bought the PerTronix 9LU 1122A system complete here in Australia from Pro Quip imported from the US for the Daimler VDP Double Six (Series III E-Type). As advised by Greg I got the complete system: Flame Thrower Coil; Frame Thrower leads (2 x 6 cylinder set of 7mm); and the Ignitor II amp (I think that's what it is called). As I was updating the cooling system on the car: radiator; viscos fan; hoses; I also replaced the old engine wiring with some silicon wire. Sounds good BUT! Whilst redoing the wiring the two green wires coming from the main connector fell out of the harness, so I really hope I have them the right way round. Also, as the old REOPUS system has been removed, and there are an amplifier and a ballast resistor between the harness and the distributor I am making some educated guesses as to the continuity of the wiring entering the REOPUS system and that exiting it as being logically the same. Looks reasonably straight forward and I really only need the ignition wire and the tacho wire on the coil plus an earth to the block from the -ve terminal. Obviously, the ignition on/off wire goes to the +ve coil connection and the tacho goes to the -ve connection, but there are some hints from Chevy and Ford installers that mention an in line 10k ohm resistor which presumably stops the tach being used as a high voltage earth. Additionally, as I have a spare Series 2 engine sitting around, I was thinking of using the throttle pedestal from that engine on the series 1. The benefit being that the Series 2 has a lovely coil mount as per the Series 3/XJ-S V12 that allows the new coil to be located on it, just aft of the distributor rather than located down the side of the engine. The mounting bolts maybe different which may involve a swap over of the valley cover? I'm still thinking about that one. Lastly, and of course because I was waiting for the PerTronix ignition I decided to give the door rubbers a birthday and put a new rear vision mirror on the passenger's side door. All going quite well although getting the window channel rubber/furry seal in at the B pillar is causing some issues. I have had a quick trawl through the forum with limited success on how this might be achieved. ALL advice gratefully accepted.