All,
I have an '89 XJS with Teves ABS. It is not working. The relay is good. I have tired several times to bleed the rear brakes according to the specific directions without success. Moving deeper into the test procedures we tested the pump motor today. I have a spare from a '91 XJS and both pumps tested good. However the pump itself on the '89 appears to be kaput.

The units are not exact replicas of each other. The '89 has two hose connection to the pump housing. the lower one held in place with an elbow connector and a retaining lock pin. The upper one with a rubber hose with a bolt thru the top of the top of the metal connector The '91 has a brake line like metal tube in lieu of the upper rubber hose with with screw on compression connectors on each end. I will try to get these upper line connectors off but from a casual look they are different sizes and therefore not interchangeable.

Q; Can the actual pump be cleaned?
Q. Any issues with using the '91 unit instead of the '89.

 

Brad
If you do a search on Orangeblossom's posts on this topic, you may find good info. He completely rebuilt his Teves system and there is lots of explanation.

 

Thx

 

Brad,

When you say the Teves ABS is not working, what symptoms are you actually seeing?

You mentioned that the pump motor is working, but you think the pump is kaput? When you turn on the ignition, does the pump run and then cut out (indicating pressure has been achieved), or does it run continuously? If it did that for long enough, it would just fail, so I presume that it is cutting out when pressure is achieved, and the pump is ok?

As I expect you know, if the pump doesn't pressurise the system, you won't have any rear brakes, and you also wouldn't be able to bleed them properly.

The system can be susceptible to air being in the low pressure feed to the pump. If you've ever emptied the reservoir, you should bleed the low pressure feed to the pump before you bleed teh rear brakes.

Cheers

Paul

 

Paul,
After re-furbishing the engine (belts, hoses, plugs, wires, etc...) moved on to new brakes all around. Front brakes bled out easily as expected. Rear brakes is where the problems began. Tried to bleed by the factory instructions with no success. Began trouble shooting. First nothing happened with the key on. New relay provided power to the pump. Next with power to the pump discovered that while the pump motor works (both on and off the car) and (a spare pump motor works) the pump does not work.
However the spare pump does work.
Should be no problem to just swap them out except now I discover that the '89 pump uses a rubber hose feed to the housing thru a round metal connector with a banjo like bolt allowing fluid to flow thru. The '91 spare unit uses a brake line pipe fitting connection setup to both the housing unit and the connector to the feel line across the firewall. Both units use the same low pressure type hose thru an 'L' shaped connector held in place with a retainer pin.

My next challenge is to figure out how to connect the brake line like connector to the firewall pipe, Once I get the existing connector off I'll have a better idea of what I am dealing with.

Why in the world would they change for just a connector. So frustrating working on these cars.

 

Brad,

Apologies for my lack of understanding. I'm not sure what you meant when you said you had no success with bleeding the rear brakes. What did you mean? Was the pedal hard or very soft at the end of the procedure?

You said that you had done it by the factory procedure. I would suggest that is not the best way to bleed the rear brakes and that you should do it by the Teves procedure. This is the procedure that I have posted and provided to a number of forum members over the years. It ensures that you know the pump is running up to pressure before bleeding and also that the pump is not running excessively during the procedure.

Moving on to your pump problem, you said that the motor can run but the pump does not work. What does that mean and how does it manifest itself? Do you mean that the motor . pump runs continuously when you turn on the ignition (for more than one minute) and therefore does not build up sufficient pressure in the accumulator? If so, are you sure that it is the pump not pressurising as opposed to a faulty accumulator or pressure valve? It can be quite difficult to pin down which of the 3 items (pump, valve, accumulator) is the failed item.

As regards the fitting, I wasn't previously aware that there was a pipe fitment change, but I now see that the metal pipe that takes fluid back from the pump to the Actuation Unit changed at VIN 165791. I assume you're implying that the connection at the pump end is different although I can't seem to track a different part number for the pump / motor for an 89 compared to a 91? If you need to fit the 1991 pump / motor, could you not also fit the associated later pipe fitting? I'm not sure if it's the right one but part number CBC9468 is one of those pipe and seems to still be available cheaply from Jaguar. Alternatively, you could ring one of the breakers such as Andy Harvey and see if he's got the pipe?.

Good luck

Paul

 

Paul,
Thx. The procedure I was using to try to bleed the rear brakes was to turn on Ignit switch, open bleed valve on caliper, press brake pedal down, close bleed valve, turn off ignition. All done in 15 sec. Repeat until complete. My assistant I having done this procedure several times never got any fluid bleed from the rear calipers.
Next we tested the the pump motors (primary and spare) and both are working. They both spin when the ignition switch is turned on. and quit at about the 15 sec mark. The primary pump did not spin but the spare one does when the motors were connected.

I did not remove the big ball (accumulator?) or the goldish cylinder with the electrical connector on the end from either unit.

 

Paul,
You've mentioned the "Teves Procedure", but I do not see it in the stickies. By any chance, can you post it? I'm about to get involved with dropping the cage, rebuilding the brakes, replacing shocks and bushings, etc., and this seems like it would be very helpful.

BTW Brad, I would not remove the accumulator ball unless you really, really, need to... and even then I'd think twice. Think brake fluid under high pressure, and I think you'll understand what I mean...