Hi All,

This is my first post in this forum. Ive recently bought 2006 X-type with +138,000 KM (+85000 Miles) and am looking to do a major service (DIY & not with the dealership) before using it as a daily to drive about 300 KM (186 Miles) back and forth each day!

Ive downloaded the workshop manual and was looking at the fluid spec as the following:
Differential Fluid/M2C 192A Synthetic/

75W140

75W140

Engine Oil /API SL and ILSAC GF-3/

5W30 Synthetic Oil

5W30 Synthetic Oil

Transmission Fluid/ATF IDEMITSU K17 (Jatco 3100 PLO85)/Castrol 06810 Transmax ATF+4 Automatic Transmission Fluid

Now, looking at the prices of the Differential fluid and ATF here in Dubai, they are relatively expensive (considering that the castrol, etc are imported and we have many local/major oil producers which they somehow have similar products). Ive found the local producer (ENOC) is having a diff oil with 75w-90 and all others are having 85w-140.

Did anyone ever used a 75w-90 instead of 75w-140 in their jags?

Moreover, the ATF (ENOC) produces meets Ford Mercon V & JATCO 3100 PL085 and its cheaper then Castrol Transmax, do you think its worth trying or not to risk it?

I attached the ENOC ATF PDF if anyone is interested.

Thnx

 

MTypeX, going between 75W-140 and 75W-90 is a big change. That is not something that I would recommend. I am going to summarize things to explain why I say what I say. The first concept you have to keep in mind is that the purpose of oil is to make it so metal does not touch metal in moving parts. It is there to be the cushion. So, what happens is when say the rear differential gears mesh, the oil gets in there and shields the metal parts and it gets squeezed to transfer the power. The ability of an oil to resist getting squeezed out can be related to the second number of the oil (ie, the 140 in 75W-140). This second number is also related to the oil properties when it is hot (ie, the standard is at 100C). So, when you look at the difference between 75W-140 fluid and 75W-90, the 90 fluid is going to have less oil between the metal parts under a given set of conditions than the 140 oil will. For normal driving, the 90 oil will probably be just fine. Under a hard acceleration, the oil is getting stressed just that much more and more of the oil is getting squeezed out. Is the 90 fluid sufficient to have some of it remain in between the metal?

the first number (75W) refers to the oil properties when it is winter (ie, the fluid is cold). But, how much work does the oil need to do protecting parts when the car is cold and sitting still?

As for the tranny fluid, if it meets the same specs as what the original fluid has, then I would see no reason not to use it. I know there are a lot of posts here about what people have used and I cannot remember any posts about people have tranny issues after using the other products.

 

Thermo,

1st of all, thank you v.much for your feedback, and truly appreciate the time you spent to share this information.

I get your point for the diff oil, and in this case, I am taking out the possibility of using the 75w-90 oil. What do you think about using the 85w-140, noting that I live & stay in a hot-climate country in which the lowest temp might reach 10 C in certain days through out the year. Should I pay much attention to the winter oil properties in such cases? for example, the temp today is 52 C and lowest is 44 C.

Thanks!

 

Actually there are some posts of others using transmission fluid not SPECIFICALLY stating meeting IDEMITSU K17. Most notably a member in Australia very recently that I was trying to help with correct specifications, who was told one fluid would be fine and his tranny just blew. Another who is a ford tech. The shop had an X in for transmission work and had completely removed, drained fluid and reinstalled. They called the Jag dealer and even with their Ford dealer discount, the service manager would not pay the price. Told them to use Marcon 5 and it would be fine. Transmission blew on the test drive.

 

Here's our discussion =

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-smell-203000/

 

MTypeX, I cannot really think of a reason why you can't use the 85W-140 oil other than making sure that it is full synthetic (you don't make mention if it is or not). The only "negative' I can give it is you may find that the car will suffer a little bit in start up mileage as the oil will be slightly thicker and will take a little more effort to get the car moving. But, that is a temporary thing.

 

 

I use Valvoline ATF MAX (?) for all cars. Valvoline website has table of all cars and MAX works for 99% of them, probaly all except CVT. It is hot in Dubai, use 140 gear oil

 

Guys,

Thanks for the replies & support!

I ended up buying Total 85w-140 Synthetic Gear oil (since the 75w-140 vanished from this market except from the dealership and its quite expensive). And will be doing the drain/fill this Friday. I am thinking to pump a little bit of White Spirit (similar to Kerosin but evaporates faster) then drain, is this advisable?


Also, regarding the ATF, Ive decided to go with AMSOIL Signature Series ATF as its compatible with Idemitsu K17 and I believe some people in this forum are using AMSOIL products. For the local ATF product, the product seller himself advised me not to use it as he used it in his Nissan and all sort of issues popped up, imagine that!!

Next will be ignition coils, spark plugs, gaskets, propshaft center bearing if anyone is interested to join the dialog.

Thanks

 

MTypeX, I would not worry about putting in the White Spirit and going from there. While getting out all of the old lube is a good idea on the surface, there will be a time when you will be running the gears without lube as you have washed all the old stuff off and have not got new oil there yet (talking a few rotations only). Besides, you are not going to get all the old oil out anyways more than likely because of pockets behind the bearings and whatnot.

 

Thanks Thermo.

By any chance, for ATF replacement, can I avoid using the drain/fill procedure and just disconnect the oil cooler hose and fill and run the engine until the fluid coming out looks fresh, then do a level check? What is the downside of using this method for Jaguars, as Ive used it in multiple Japanese cars and it was easy and fast.

Thanks.

 

MTypeX, I have heard of cranking the engine over (with the fuel system defeated) to slowly push the fluid out of the tranny. I cannot say that I would recommend running the engine and pulling the cooler line. At some point, the tranny fluid pump is going to be running dry. That would mean that you would have metal on metal in the pump. This at a minimum will shorten the life of the pump. Atleast when you are cranking over the engine, things are moving slower and there will be less revolutions with the pump dry.

If you do this process, then you will need to fill the tranny, give it a few minutes to allow the fluid to flow to all the areas that it can get to and then start the engine. From there, without moving the car, shift through all the gears (from P to 2 and back) slowly, pausing about 5 seconds per gear. This will allow all the fluid passages to refill. YOu can then check the fluid level normally and then see what your level looks like then. It is possible that you may not initially feel the car go into gear as you may not have enough fluid in the tranny to develop sufficient pressure.

 

Jaguar X Type work is not "easy and fast". Do it right as searches in this forum can guide and direct you or it'll bite you right in the ***.

 

I agree to your point of not letting the pump dry. Ive done this before to Toyota & Lexus and they are still running great, the trick is again, not to let the pump dry out.

Honestly, I still did not have a look at this part of the Jag, and willing to do this coming weekend. For my reference, does anyone know what type of connectors the oil cooler lines have? Is it a C-clamp type?

The procedure is basic, but it depends on the type of transmission we are talking about. so removing both cooler lines from the cooler (not from transmission), and locate which one is in and which one is out from the transmission, get 2 x buckets, one will have the fresh ATF (to make it easier, put a valve at the bottom of the ATF Bucket or get a mobile water dispenser) & the other will be the disposal, and label them with a marker with 1 Liter to 10 Liters (to have a relative measure of what is going in & whats going out), get a 12V electric pump (relatively cheap price) and connect it to the fresh fluid bucket, then get a colorless type of hoses and connect it to the cooler line side which will suck the fluid to the transmission. Connect another hose to the cooler line pushing the fluid out of the transmission and clamp it to the disposal bucket, Now put the disposal bucket on a pallet or small chair, just to make the fluid discharge opposes the gravity and a bit slower than usual, and the fresh ATF on a bigger chair or stand, so you use the gravity and pumping force to push the fluid faster to the transmission. So you will have somehow faster flow to the transmission & somehow slower flow from the transmission, and then fill the ATF bucket with fresh fluid. Start the car, put it in Neutral, and watch the fluid going in and out, you will see that the old fluid is turning into the fresh fluid and most importantly is to monitor the level so you do not run dry. shift through gears while braking and hand brake is engaged for safety. all of this should not exceed 1-3 mins, then shut off, you should still have fresh fluid and fresh fluid coming out too. disconnect the hoses from the cooler line, and connect them to the cooler to flush it, and just run the pump for few seconds, you will see the fluid is fresh in the cooler also.

Connect back the cooler lines as they were before, check the level, add or drain as you see. Then run the car again for sometime, check the fluid again and adjust.

Now, the issue is I do not know if this would work with Jags and I dont want to ruin my transmission, but the principle is the same for almost all cars, the only thing is not to let it dry out.

I also do agree with the drain/fill procedure, but from what I understand, its a time consuming process if am not mistaken?

Thanks.

 

MTypeX, the tranny in our car is very similar to other JatCo trannies. So, if you have done this with a Honda, then you should be good.

 

MTypeX: If possible, please post pictures. Flushing the transmission fluid has been on my "to do" list for a while.

Jaguar's workshop manual shows how to disconnect the transmission cooler on page 1549. If you know a clever technique, I'd appreciate your suggestions.

 

This is how you check transmission fluid level on a Jaguar X Type =

Transmission Fluid Level Check. Make sure J-Gate shift selector is in the Park position. With the engine running and the foot brake applied, move the J-Gate shift selector through ' P-R-N-D-4-3-2' and back to the ' P' position to circulate the automatic transmission fluid until the temperature reaches 30 to 40°C (86 to 104°F). When the automatic transmission fluid temperature reaches 35°C (95°F) check that the selector lever is in the ' P' position, raise the vehicle. With the engine running, remove the automatic transmission fluid level tube plug, Remove and discard the level plug and sealing washer. Use automatic transmissionfluid WSS-M2C922-A1 or equivalent meeting Jaguar specification. If the automatic transmission fluid does not come out of the transmission fluid level tube the automatic transmission fluid level is insufficient. If this is the case add the automatic transmission fluid in 0.5 litre units into the automatic transmission fluid charging pipe until the automatic transmission fluid comes out of the automatic transmission fluid level tube. Remove the automatic transmission fluid charging pipe cap. Make sure the automatic transmission fluid temperature does not exceed 40°C (104°F). If the automatic transmission fluid temperature does exceed 40°C (104°F) stop the automatic transmissionfluid level check and allow the automatic transmission fluid to cool until the temperature reaches 30 to 40°C (86 to 104°F). Allow the automatic transmission fluid to come out of the automatic transmission fluid level tube until the overflow stops at a temperature of no more than 40°C (104°F).If when the automatic transmission fluid level plug is first removed and automatic transmission fluid comes out of the automatic transmission fluid level tube, allow the automatic transmission fluid to come out of the automatic transmission fluid level tube until the overflow stops at a temperature of no more than 40°C (104°F). Install the transmission fluid level plug, Install a new level plug and sealing washer, Tighten to 15 NmInstall the automatic transmission fluid charging pipe cap. Lower the vehicle.

And better read these forums (I have a DEFINITIVE one) posts/threads to not remove the wrong plug to do the fluid check that screws your transmission.

 

 

Thanks guys for the feedback.

@ dwclapp - I will take details photos of the set once I have a look and start the job. Ive ordered the oil and still waiting as we dont have it here in auto spare parts shops. For the quick connect tool, if its a Jiffy type connector, we can use a pick tool to take out the C-clamp, I will have a look and report back.

@ iownme - as I mentioned before, I agree with doing the drain/fill procedure, it worked with everyone once you are using the right oil with no issues afterwards. I have the impression that this will take alot of time to do (in which I dont have) and I also dont have lifts to make it quicker, so have to raise the vehicle using jack stands then lower it, then raise it..etc. The procedure I described above is somehow the same principle the workshop machine does, but the machine is manufactured for heavy duty, long life type of work, and for us thats not the case, I am not doing such work on daily or weekly basis. Regarding the pump, I am not operating it for 24 hrs all the year, its literally for few minutes in which its totally acceptable. The one I am using is a 12V DC 4L/Min pump and its worth $4 and tried it before for other cars and it worked. on the other side, I honestly did not have a proper look at the cooler lines nor the procedure, I cannot tell now how difficult to do this for X types and maybe the drain/fill procedure is really an easier option. I am willing to change the ATF almost every year, as I drive around 50-60K miles yearly, and this procedure, if done correctly, will take about 30mins to 1 hr in total on other cars, but not sure how it will go for the Jags!

Thanks.