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2009 XF-S 179k miles Blown engine rebuild thread

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2009 XF-S 179k miles Blown engine rebuild thread

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Old 10-21-2018, 02:18 PM
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Default 2009 XF-S 179k miles Blown engine rebuild thread

I'm new to the site and figured I would make my own thread where I can post up any things I've encountered with my high mileage Jaguar. I'm a used car dealer based out of Florida. I purchased a 2009 Jaguar XF-S with 179k on the odometer. The car had an insane knock in the engine along with a plethora of check engine lights, emissions lights, trunk open light and a/c not working, rear trim piece on decklid snapped off among other small things. I paid $3800 for this car at auction and it was good enough to drive to my shop. The car looks phenomenal inside and out and appears to have been maintained for how nice it looks.

So first things first. I had to find an engine and I did find a 32k mile engine out of NYC. I got pictures of the car showing it was wrecked in the rear and no damage in the front. I pulled the carfax on the wrecked car to verify mileage, but also to verify maintenance on the car. To my surprise this car was highly serviced and the mileage was true, plus the accident was only a month prior to me calling so it wasn't just sitting around. I paid $3250 for this engine having including shipping it to Florida. My builder charged me $1000 to drop the engine and put the new/used one in. I had brand new factory plugs put in the engine, new factory belts, Royal Purple HPS oil and had the trans fluid changed. After having it put together I had them change out both a/c lines as the a/c was split and not working right. I ordered the following from Jaguar after the engine drop (coolant lines, coolant reservoir tank, emissions carbon filter thing for the fuel tank). After all of that the car runs good but keeps throwing a fuel cap code and cat codes. I'm going to replace the rest of the emissions stuff, change the fuel cap and I ordered some Magnaflow high flow cats as recommended on one of the threads on this forum. After this the car should be Extremely reliable mechanically, although the suspension will need a full replacement in the next year as boots and bushings are clearly worn.

Aside from mechanical I had to replace the rear trim piece that says Jaguar, and the boot lid loom because mine was split, also there was not hard key so I had to order a $200 key from Jaguar as well. I definitely have a lot of money and time invested in this car, but it's definitely one of my favorite cars I've ever drive....and I've literally driven thousands of cars....classics, exotics, euro cars etc. I specialized in classics for years, but was always bored by the older cars lack of performance. They have tons of presence, but really lacked in power and handling. This XF-S is just an amazing machine to me. Clearly better than the BMW and Merecedes in that it fuses performance with the feeling of luxury and class seamlessly. Of course that is my opinion....but driving as many cars as I have driven I have a pretty good litmus test as to what cars offer what.

A lot of people wonder why I'm putting so much money into this car and my thought is this...even if it takes me $10,000 in parts to replace almost everything I will be just shy of $14,000 into this car and it will be almost brand new at that point. To drive a nearly brand new Jaguar XF-S for under $14,000 to me is one hell of a deal.

So far this website has helped me in numerous things in my build:
1. Trunk open light and car won't lock = fixed with new wire loom as recommended by this site.
2. Weird clicking noise in center console that sounded like a bad speedo gear = fixed by zip tying a wire that was rubbing on the driveshaft as recommended by this site.
3. Check fuel cap = partly fixed issue by replacing vapor canister by fuel tank again recommended by this site.

Forums like this are very important for owners and dealers alike. It helps repair cars properly and minimizes just throwing parts at a car and guessing. Any oddities I come across that haven't been mentioned I will post up for future use in hopes it can help anyone else as all the previous threads have helped me. I want to thank all of the contributing members on this forum and the moderators. This forum is set up great and I love the fact you don't see "USE THE SEARCH" responses like you do in so many other forums. That is the worst because when you go to use search and you come across a subject you are researching, it always dead ends into numerous threads with some person saying "use the search function"....thanks champ I was using search, now the search is inundated with threads that have no answer to the question and some fool typing "use search". I'm so glad this site doesn't seem to have that issue. I guess that's what you get when you come to a more "grown up" platform like Jaguar.

 
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:54 AM
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Really surprised to see a used car dealer trying to come out ahead on a blown engine 2009 XF. A high school kid that got a hand-me-down XF, maybe, but a dealer, I never would have thought it.

Considering the effort and time you are spending on this car, and as a dealer, you could easily have picked up another XF-S with less miles on your replacement engine and a ton less miles on the chassis and come out way ahead:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=495711072&zip=77478 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D77478%26startYe ar%3D2009%26sortBy%3DmileageASC%26incremental%3Dal l%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeLi st%3DXF%26makeCodeList%3DJAG%26searchRadius%3D0%26 trimCodeList%3DXF%257CS%252CXF%257CSupercharged%25 2CXF%257CSport&startYear=2009&numRecords=25&firstR ecord=0&endYear=2009&modelCodeList=XF&makeCodeList =JAG&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=JAG&modelCode1=XF&cl ickType=listing

That's just a dealer asking price for $18K, so what would that have been at auction, or if you waited to find a little old lady trading it in?

And as you are finding out, everything is worn out with a 180K miles XF from 2009. There will be more and more things that break, so you're not going to come out ahead.

Your car should have been stripped for non-wear item parts and crushed because XF's are not low-production collectibles that should be saved.
 

Last edited by lotusespritse; 10-22-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:35 AM
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Well it's partly because I made a mistake. The car was not knocking when it was in lane. I checked it over and over and it seemed to sound great, no smoke, no knocking, a/c was cold. It looked like it had a check engine light, the trunk issue and a broken trim piece. So I planned on buying cheap as a commuter and rehabbing the cooling system and various other things. I didn't intend for it to right off the bat be a bad engine. However to my horror after I won it and go out to start it within a few minutes it started knocking ridiculously. Had it checked by multiple mechanics and it was the same answer....bad engine.

Choice was try to part it out and lose a ton of money or find a very low mileage engine and start from scratch. I decided to make it a project and go with it. I figured when looking for a used one on sites like Autotrader that like you said a lower mileage one was about $18k. So if it takes me $14k to replace almost everything with brand new factory parts and have a low mileage, well-serviced engine...I will be in a much better place than if I were to have bought a used $18k one. The $18k one will have ten years on those parts already, whereas mine will have zero since they are almost all new. I got into the car industry because I love cars so to me this is a fun project. It helps me get to know what makes this car tick, what goes wrong with them etc.

This will also help me be able to buy these used and sell them. I'll be able to go into auction, see an issue and know if it is financially a smart buy to resell or something to pass on. I've done this type of thing on a few different cars now including a BMW 550i I have currently in my fleet. I managed to figure out a weird shut-off issue that others had and nobody could figure out. People were trading in their 550's because of this issue and I narrowed it down by tinkering with it. When I sell the 550 I won't make any money on it because I have so much in it, however now I know a ton about that car and can easily figure out when at auction which ones to buy and which ones to pass on. One of my closest friends that's also a dealer told me whenever I take a loss don't get upset about it, understand that losses as a dealer is the cost of your education. Every time I screw up that is a lesson for the future. So with that I don't mind tackling one project at a time and trying to figure these cars out.

I have to admit though after this beauty got running I fell in love with it so its easier to mentally accept putting all of this money into it if I truly enjoy it. I definitely see your point you are making though.

Lotesespritse: I see you have a pretty nice collection of cars. Which of those is your favorite? Before the Jaguar my favorite car I've personally owned was my Viper. That car was an absolute blast to own. I just hated not having windows and that toupee thing is too low for us tall guys.
 
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Old 10-22-2018, 10:41 AM
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Sounds like you had quite a journey, I bet it was dread when that engine first started knocking! Glad to hear you turned things round and no better way to learn the ins and outs of the car if you plan on selling them. Go any pictures?
 
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Old 10-22-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Leet8845 View Post
Sounds like you had quite a journey, I bet it was dread when that engine first started knocking! Glad to hear you turned things round and no better way to learn the ins and outs of the car if you plan on selling them. Go any pictures?
Yeah I was mortified, but I knew being upset wouldn't fix the situation, that my best course of action was to use it as a learning experience and get some use out of it for myself. As the build progressed and I was driving it I absolutely fell in love with this car.



 
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:06 PM
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Well, at least you found a reasonably priced replacement engine because that's really not easy to do given the demand for used XF engines due to the failures in the cooling system and owners never checking their oil level, along with the car not telling you that you have low oil or lost coolant in time to do anything.

The bigger problem is that when you go to sell your car, you're not going to get anywhere close to the price of an XF with its original engine and only 30K miles. A replacement engine put in by a used car dealer and not Jaguar themselves would scare the pants off of most buyers that otherwise be willing to pay $18K for a low miles XF that didn't have an engine replacement.

Your car is going to be valued as a 180K mile car to anyone but you. I think you'll have trouble breaking $10K on resale given these two 2009 XF Supercharged examples have a lot less miles are only around $10K:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=495847225&zip=77478 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D77478%26startYe ar%3D2009%26maxMileage%3D200000%26sortBy%3Dmileage DESC%26incremental%3Dall%26engineCodes%3D8CLDR%26f irstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeList%3D XF%26makeCodeList%3DJAG%26searchRadius%3D0&startYe ar=2009&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2009&m odelCodeList=XF&makeCodeList=JAG&searchRadius=0&cl ickType=spotlight

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=495614509&zip=77478 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D77478%26startYe ar%3D2009%26maxMileage%3D200000%26sortBy%3Dmileage DESC%26incremental%3Dall%26engineCodes%3D8CLDR%26f irstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2009%26modelCodeList%3D XF%26makeCodeList%3DJAG%26searchRadius%3D0&startYe ar=2009&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2009&m odelCodeList=XF&makeCodeList=JAG&searchRadius=0&ma keCode1=JAG&modelCode1=XF&clickType=listing

But like you said, it can be a lot of fun to fix up cars. I do it all the time as a hobby, not a profession, because I would be broke with the time spent just looking for parts and dealing with the whole thing. On here, I definitely recommend to others on this forum with blown engines to sell them for parts and buy another XF you love the car, and then replace the plastic on the newly acquired one.

To a different note, I had a 2001 Viper GTS, and it was great. The bubbled hood made for plenty of room once inside on the GTS, and the windows sealed well except when going over 150mph. Anything over that speed and the windows pulled out because there's no window frame.I always recommend a Viper for those that want their first crazy car. They are reliable and don't depreciate.

Of my current cars, they are all favorites depending on my mood. The XF's are almost orgasmic for me to drive daily as they are designed exactly how I would design a daily driver. I just can't get myself to sell them yet even though they are aging. The Lotus Esprit is a car that I just always loved, and if I sell it, I'll just buy another like the last time I sold my Esprit, so I will just keep it. It's so nimble and cool to drive, and very practical and reliable for a 90's supercar. The E-Type is awesome for slow cruising around with the top down on a nice day, and really takes you back in time. The E-Type is everyone's favorite car, young, old, male, female, you name it, they love it and there are no haters. It's been in 5 shows and won 1st place everywhere it's gone. Great car. The Rover is ideal when you feel like being a boss in an SUV. It's very good at that. And the Lambo is a celebrity. Hanging out with a celebrity can be an effort, so if you want the attention, it's great, but if you're tired and just want to get somewhere, not the car to take. People follow you taking pics and videos while they are driving. Makes me nervous. Besides, you literally can't park it anywhere unless you are there to watch it. It attracts all kinds of attention, and that means good and bad attention. 99 out of 100 are totally cool and really admire the Lambo, but there are those people in this world that are not happy that you have a Lambo and they don't, and some of them want to express that by hurting the car. It's also a 6-speed manual, which is rare, and I love that it's appreciating in value, and could realistically double in value from what I paid over the next 5-10 years.

The Lotus Elan I bought just to scratch an itch and enjoy some top down motoring during the summer, but I just sold it after only 10 months. I came out ahead on that one selling it for about $6K more than I paid for it.
 

Last edited by lotusespritse; 10-22-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:27 PM
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Oh I know you are absolutely spot on about that. I knew if I dove into this I would have to make it my car because I would probably be too heavy in it to sell. I definitely lucked out on the engine thus far and to have found one that was from a rear end hit car, with service records, with a carfax to verify all of that....and the accident was less than two months before I got it so the engine wasn't just sitting around. I've replaced most of the cooling hoses and the radiator as well. Anything else in the cooling system you would advise to change? You mentioned changing some of the plastic parts, which ones are most important to change? Just curious If I've done it yet or if it's one I missed and need to do asap.

The GTS is an amazing car! I'm a huge Viper fan and that was by far the most fun car to drive for me. Plus they are appreciating a lot. Mine went up nearly $7k in a little over 2 years. The Lotus's....man those are such iconic 80's cars...sooo cool! Have you ever driven a T-Bucket? Those things are a freaking blast to drive! Really a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
Well, at least you found a reasonably priced replacement engine because that's really not easy to do given the demand for used XF engines due to the failures in the cooling system and owners never checking their oil level, along with the car not telling you that you have low oil or lost coolant in time to do anything.

The bigger problem is that when you go to sell your car, you're not going to get anywhere close to the price of an XF with its original engine and only 30K miles. A replacement engine put in by a used car dealer and not Jaguar themselves would scare the pants off of most buyers that otherwise be willing to pay $18K for a low miles XF that didn't have an engine replacement.

Your car is going to be valued as a 180K mile car to anyone but you. I think you'll have trouble breaking $10K on resale given these two 2009 XF Supercharged examples have a lot less miles are only around $10K:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

But like you said, it can be a lot of fun to fix up cars. I do it all the time as a hobby, not a profession, because I would be broke with the time spent just looking for parts and dealing with the whole thing. On here, I definitely recommend to others on this forum with blown engines to sell them for parts and buy another XF you love the car, and then replace the plastic on the newly acquired one.

To a different note, I had a 2001 Viper GTS, and it was great. The bubbled hood made for plenty of room once inside on the GTS, and the windows sealed well except when going over 150mph. Anything over that speed and the windows pulled out because there's no window frame.I always recommend a Viper for those that want their first crazy car. They are reliable and don't depreciate.

Of my current cars, they are all favorites depending on my mood. The XF's are almost orgasmic for me to drive daily as they are designed exactly how I would design a daily driver. I just can't get myself to sell them yet even though they are aging. The Lotus Esprit is a car that I just always loved, and if I sell it, I'll just buy another like the last time I sold my Esprit, so I will just keep it. It's so nimble and cool to drive, and very practical and reliable for a 90's supercar. The E-Type is awesome for slow cruising around with the top down on a nice day, and really takes you back in time. The E-Type is everyone's favorite car, young, old, male, female, you name it, they love it and there are no haters. It's been in 5 shows and won 1st place everywhere it's gone. Great car. The Rover is ideal when you feel like being a boss in an SUV. It's very good at that. And the Lambo is a celebrity. Hanging out with a celebrity can be an effort, so if you want the attention, it's great, but if you're tired and just want to get somewhere, not the car to take. People follow you taking pics and videos while they are driving. Makes me nervous. Besides, you literally can't park it anywhere unless you are there to watch it. It attracts all kinds of attention, and that means good and bad attention. 99 out of 100 are totally cool and really admire the Lambo, but there are those people in this world that are not happy that you have a Lambo and they don't, and some of them want to express that by hurting the car. It's also a 6-speed manual, which is rare, and I love that it's appreciating in value, and could realistically double in value from what I paid over the next 5-10 years.

The Lotus Elan I bought just to scratch an itch and enjoy some top down motoring during the summer, but I just sold it after only 10 months. I came out ahead on that one selling it for about $6K more than I paid for it.
 
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by High Mileage Jaguar View Post
Oh I know you are absolutely spot on about that. I knew if I dove into this I would have to make it my car because I would probably be too heavy in it to sell. I definitely lucked out on the engine thus far and to have found one that was from a rear end hit car, with service records, with a carfax to verify all of that....and the accident was less than two months before I got it so the engine wasn't just sitting around. I've replaced most of the cooling hoses and the radiator as well. Anything else in the cooling system you would advise to change? You mentioned changing some of the plastic parts, which ones are most important to change? Just curious If I've done it yet or if it's one I missed and need to do asap.

The GTS is an amazing car! I'm a huge Viper fan and that was by far the most fun car to drive for me. Plus they are appreciating a lot. Mine went up nearly $7k in a little over 2 years. The Lotus's....man those are such iconic 80's cars...sooo cool! Have you ever driven a T-Bucket? Those things are a freaking blast to drive! Really a lot of fun.
I did all the plastic cooling pipes along with the header tank and water pump. And I mean all of them, including the rubber and plastic hoses that go to the transmission cooler and the heater, and the thin plastic pipes from the header tank, and the thermostat housing, and the rear crossover. It was around $1500 in parts per car, and lots of hours working over 2 days per car. Not a fun job. And I cleaned the intake valves at the same time since the intake manifold has to come off.

My car is different, so I would have to look at the parts diagrams on parts.com for the 4.2L to know what plastic you have, but it all needs to go!

I would also service the transmission and differential if you haven't already.

Your car does look great!

T-buckets and cars of that era I like looking at, but my interest in owning cars starts in the 60's to present day.
 
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:04 PM
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You can ignore my question about the economics in your other thread. You have answered it very clearly here
As others have said you won't end up ahead. But you got an amazing price on that engine - people are paying $8-10k for the 5.0 V8 (used) given the limited number kicking around

Good luck in getting it all fixed up!
 
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
You can ignore my question about the economics in your other thread. You have answered it very clearly here
As others have said you won't end up ahead. But you got an amazing price on that engine - people are paying $8-10k for the 5.0 V8 (used) given the limited number kicking around

Good luck in getting it all fixed up!
Sorry I saw the other thread first so I answered it there. Yeah I definitely got a good price on the engine. I wonder if my old engine is worth anything. I'm thinking of pulling the Supercharger and keeping it as a backup. You mention the 5.0 needing replacements too? What seems to be the problem with the 5.0 v8? I thought the failures were more the supercharged one. Is it all of the V8's? Definitely good info to know when I'm looking at buying more of these to sell. I want to make sure I buy good cars for my customers. It's also why I'm open to doing things like I am with my jag. It helps teach me the ins and outs of this car so I'm more versed at buying them.
 
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:49 AM
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In reality it's a very small number that blow but you of course see them online on these forums. Mostly the V8 - doesn't appear to be with the petrol V6 that much

Seems to be two causes. 1) coolant leak (from one of those plastic parts), engine overheats quickly, Alu block warps and it's game over. Or 2) oil starvation and throwing a rod. More often on the SC and when the car is being tracked / raced
 
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
In reality it's a very small number that blow but you of course see them online on these forums. Mostly the V8 - doesn't appear to be with the petrol V6 that much

Seems to be two causes. 1) coolant leak (from one of those plastic parts), engine overheats quickly, Alu block warps and it's game over. Or 2) oil starvation and throwing a rod. More often on the SC and when the car is being tracked / raced
There's a lot of ticking time bombs out there waiting for a coolant failure. And I would argue that the bulk of Jaguar owners aren't generally the type that get on a forum to ask about their blown engines, but they are the type that keep driving the car when the check engine light and the low coolant lights come on. The bulk of owners are just going to dump the cars when they get the bad news from the mechanic that it will cost more to fix than the car is worth.


 
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BritCars View Post
In reality it's a very small number that blow but you of course see them online on these forums. Mostly the V8 - doesn't appear to be with the petrol V6 that much

Seems to be two causes. 1) coolant leak (from one of those plastic parts), engine overheats quickly, Alu block warps and it's game over. Or 2) oil starvation and throwing a rod. More often on the SC and when the car is being tracked / raced
Good to know. So I'll definitely be pulling the beauty covers moving forward to inspect the plastic coolant pipes better.

Originally Posted by lotusespritse View Post
There's a lot of ticking time bombs out there waiting for a coolant failure. And I would argue that the bulk of Jaguar owners aren't generally the type that get on a forum to ask about their blown engines, but they are the type that keep driving the car when the check engine light and the low coolant lights come on. The bulk of owners are just going to dump the cars when they get the bad news from the mechanic that it will cost more to fix than the car is worth.
Very true indeed.
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:26 AM
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I've noticed that the supercharger whine on my car seems a bit excessive compared to most other supercharged cars I've heard. People can hear it as I pass their house and always ask me "why is your car whining...is it broke?" Is the 4.2 supercharged supposed to whine loud or is there an issue I'm missing?
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by High Mileage Jaguar View Post
I've noticed that the supercharger whine on my car seems a bit excessive compared to most other supercharged cars I've heard. People can hear it as I pass their house and always ask me "why is your car whining...is it broke?" Is the 4.2 supercharged supposed to whine loud or is there an issue I'm missing?
The 4.2 SC has much more whine than the 5.0 SC.
The 4.2 uses an Eaton M series (M112 I think) while the 5.0 uses a newer design, an Eaton TVS R1900.
The Eaton TVS range was deliberately designed to be as quiet as possible, to the chagrin of many owners.
I have a VAP tune on my F-Type (Eaton TVS R1320 SC) which has increased the whine quite a lot.
The tune keeps the SC bypass valve shut sooner and "tighter" which enhances the whine (and the power!).
The M series has a completely different bypass valve set-up.
See here for some info about the Eaton TVS: TVSŪ Supercharger, Twin Vortices SeriesŪ Superchargers - Vehicle - Eaton
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by OzXFR View Post
The 4.2 SC has much more whine than the 5.0 SC.
The 4.2 uses an Eaton M series (M112 I think) while the 5.0 uses a newer design, an Eaton TVS R1900.
The Eaton TVS range was deliberately designed to be as quiet as possible, to the chagrin of many owners.
I have a VAP tune on my F-Type (Eaton TVS R1320 SC) which has increased the whine quite a lot.
The tune keeps the SC bypass valve shut sooner and "tighter" which enhances the whine (and the power!).
The M series has a completely different bypass valve set-up.
See here for some info about the Eaton TVS: TVSŪ Supercharger, Twin Vortices SeriesŪ Superchargers - Vehicle - Eaton
That's good to know, thanks. Being that I didn't get to hear it run properly before swapping the engine I just wanted to make sure it was normal to whine so loudly. It has tons of power, but man that whine is loud. I kind of like it though...sounds like a whining Jaguar or panther. Definitely fitting for this car.
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:57 PM
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It will also whine more if it has a smaller pulley fitted.
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by u102768 View Post
It will also whine more if it has a smaller pulley fitted.
Yep, smaller upper pulley.
You can also fit a larger lower (crank) pulley as I have done which has much the same effect.
There is a fair bit of debate over which is the better pulley mod for the AJ133SC (V8) but both seem to result in much the same power and torque increase.
Some have even done both but the general view is this takes the TVS R1900 past it's maximum useful boost pressure.
No point doing a smaller upper pulley on the AJ126SC (V6) though as there is very little room to reduce the size of the OEM pulley, it's already damn near as small as it can go.
 
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