Hey Guys,

I'm new to Jaguar but found a 2012 XF with 89k miles near where I live for what looks like a good price. The seller claims that it's just a broken timing guide and that his mechanic inspected the engine and that there is no internal damage. He claims the engine will start up just fine but then stalls and you can hear the timing chain "flopping around". This sounds like a bigger issue to me then just the timing chain/guides correct? If it is just the timing chain/guides what is the likelihood that there are also damaged pistons and valves? I see a lot of issues involving the timing chain but can't find a lot of info on how often pistons/valves are damaged. Any advice on this would be much appreciated!

 

I would be interested to know how he inspected the engine without dismantling the front. If the valves had hit the pistons it would not start and run.

 

He claims his mechanic had it apart. Proper procedure would be to remove the valve covers for inspection right?

 

It could just be the well-documented timing guide issue where the metal on the guides was not as strong as the hardened metal of the tensioner pin, causing deformation over time.

When I rebuilt my engine I found burrs in the aluminum in the area where the chains pass between the head and the block, where this deformation had caused so much slack in the chains that they were rattling around in the chamber, and you could hear a definite luggy rattly noise on idle. Not enough slack to cause internal damage (the catastrophically low oil level took care of that), but this could be the kind of chain guide damage he's talking about?

Not sure on labor cost to fix this as I did it myself but I'm sure plenty of people here have had this done and can comment.

 

Thanks for the input Dave. I also would be doing all the work myself. How much did it end up costing you to rebuild your engine? I'm just trying to figure out the worst case scenario cost.

 

No, to see the problem properly you would have to remove the front cover, the crank pulley and all. I would perform a compression or leakdown test to confirm cylinders are all OK. Chains, tensioners and guides set can be had for less than $200. You don't need to worry about the third chain. You would need a set of timing tools also.

 

I should've clarified better, to check for bent valves and other damage the proper procedure would be to remove the valve covers correct?

I thought about a compression test but if the engine is out of time wouldn't the numbers be low anyways?

 

If you have a bent valve compression will be zero.

 

Buddy stay away from that car... All the extra money you'll spend fixing that + the cost of the car. It will be cheaper to buy one in good condition.

 

Kinda have to agree with this!
Unless you just want a project.There was a reason the mechanic buttoned it back up and sent it out the door.
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Probably after regaining consciousness following the mechanic's quote for repair, the seller decided the same thing we all think, cut my losses and sell it as a salvage/parts car. You'd be taking quite a gamble as a used replacement engine (if indeed the damage is worse than represented), shipped to your door, would likely cost as much or more than a perfectly good running 2012 XF with that many miles would be worth, not to mention labor. Also consider that since you can't test-drive it, you can't ascertain what else may be wrong with it, i.e. maybe the transmission and brakes are toast too. Its a very risky purchase.

There is a small chance that it only needs chain guides, but we're all dubious. I suggest if our OP wants to take a chance on a DIY project, first send photos and details to a few local salvage yards and ask them for a cash offer to come get the car. Take that salvage value, subtract enough to cover your towing, diagnostics and other expenses and that's what you offer the seller. That way, if it turns out that the needed repairs are more than anticipated, you can have the salvage yard come get it and you've only lost some wasted time.

 

It's just not worth the risk from any point of view, with the amount of work involved in everything described above + the money, there is a 100% probability, to find a better car for less money and less work.
If you go the other route you will end up hating the car and not enjoying it.
An xfr in good condition can put the biggest smile on your face, but a bad one can also make your life miserable.

Do your self a favor, up the budget get a good car, so you just have to do oil changes, and enjoy sunny days + 510 hp.

 

Don't listen to all these nasayers, I've saved 4 of these now and these engines are pretty easy to work on. If it runs there is no major issue and like I said earlier I'm sure the defect has not been researched properly. Go for it and save yourself a bunch of $$$$. How much are they asking?

 

Sorry for not checking this thread sooner. I have talked him down to $3000, I'm most likely going to get the car on Wednesday. The 4 that you saved were all just needing the timing chain/guides? The seller says it runs but only for a few seconds, have you experienced this before?

I've found a few good videos showing the process and what tools are needed. Are there any good threads with a list of what all "should" be replaced while I'm in there? Also any recommendations on which timing tool set and injector tool to buy? It will most likely be a one use tool for me so I really don't want to pay $$$$ for them.

 

Sounds like a good deal. Of the 4 engines I have repaired one had thrown a rod due to lack of oil - owner NEVER checked it, one had a piston 'missing in action' due to the fact the owner kept driving it when he know the valve timing had slipped, the third had both head gaskets blown due to the owner ignoring a coolant leak and the fourth was just new timing components as I bought it in a wrecker Range Rover. The trend is definitely stupid owners!!
I always change the tensioners and guides, not always the chains. The job is much simpler if you don't change the chains and you shouldn't have to at that mileage. No timing tools needed if you tie it all up. I would take the front apart and see what you have once the front cover is off. Front crank oil seal should be changed also. Injectors can be very hard to remove, you may not have to if you are lucky :-) If you do end up having to change the chains I would recommending dropping the motor out the bottom. I fixed the XFR with blown head gaskets for less than $1K all in and got myself a great car that has now done 12K miles since repair.

 

Thanks for all the help kansanbrit! Is it possible to do the timing chains with the engine in the car? I don't have a lift at home and would like to tackle this job in my garage.

I'm sure I'll have many more questions along the way.

 

Yes, you can do the timing chains in the car. Make sure you have a copy of the workshop manual and also make sure you read the section on how to identify which crank bolt your engine has and which way it's threaded before you remove it.

 

Does anybody have a link to download the manual? Or a link on which one to purchase? I'm assuming you guys are using the factory Jaguar manual?

 

There are full copies of the workshop manual kicking around in places but I added a few relevant sections here. Copies of the timing locking tools are available all over Amazon/eBay

 

Thanks Dave! Can't wait to get the car and dive into this!