alright gents, figuring out what this "heat soak" is.. always read about it, but the other day my acceleration was WAY softer than it should have been during some 3rd gear blasts through the hills in 90* weather.
who can share their experiences with ways to improve intercooling / lessen the heat soak effects?
I've read of an option of a newer Bosch coolant pump/ (MB part?)
I've read of concept of incorporating a Kincaid "Killer Chiller" setup, but haven't seen anyone do it to a Jaguar yet. Looks like you use car's A/C to lower temps of the fluid that gets pumped through intercooler?
Looks like Eurotoys and Paramount have intercoolers they sell for this setup, but that confuses me as it looks to be a front (radiator) mounted intercooler and our engines have intercooler on top of engine..?
any insights would be greatly appreciated.
eventually want to get a tune, but i figure i should have my 470HP back before trying to add more..

 

some people remove the engine decoration, said it helped

 

The coolers on top are actually called charge coolers . We're the hot charge/boosted air transfers it's heat to the IC coolant , then it's pumped to the front mount Liquid to air Ic to be cooled back down .
The KC is a great concept , although it has its pro's and cons , not a lot of space to fit the unit and all its plumbing , and the AC is hindered by it also , then there is the problem that the AC is deactivated with WOT .

Adding coolant capacity and the pump upgrade is your best value defence !

The so called upgrade IC radiators on offer are thicker than the stock one so there is a capacity increase , but the thicker the IC the less efficient it is and also has effectively more air restriction to the rest of the coolant System.
So to me that's a step side ways !
Bosch 101 IC pump seems to be the go to , I swapped mine to a 101 and added 4liters to the IC circuit , it definatly helped.

 

This was my approach. adding another radiator to the IC circuit.

With a number of performance modifications that I made to my car I was very concerned about heat soak. I also upgraded to the higher flow Bosch pump.

 

I fitted the MB Bosch pump, and while my engine is out and being rebuilt I'm TIG welding a universal aluminum radiator as an uprated chargecooler radiator. I looked at upgrading the internal radiators inside the charge cooler but there's just no space there, so I figured the best gains would be made where there's space to increase the size of the radiator at the front of the car, as well as the uprated pump.

On top of this, I investigated the possibility of using Laminova cores in the factory charge cooler but there's just not enough space to practically achieve this.

The "Killer Chiller" systems can work, and I believe the Dodge Demon uses a system like this where the AC chills the water, but they're aimed purely at hard pulls for the 1/4 mile etc, whereas I'd prefer something that provides a constant benefit.

From a practical point of view I think the only thing I could really have in addition to the uprated radiator at the front as well as the pump may be some fans on it, but I figure you lose the benefit of the fans as soon as you're in motion.

 

If you're worried about losing power when it's hot, and you're not at the highest tune level, then I would suggest a tune and pulley.

Not being a smartass either. I have enough power that even when it's super hot, it's still faster than it needs to be and still hits hard.

 

you can try adding a water wetter like Purple Ice from royal purple.
do some research though.

(water wetters help with heat transfer, so you can run cooler)

 

Realized I never replied to this point - our engines have a charge cooler mounted on top, which is an air-to-water intercooler. I think you may be confusing this with the top-mounted intercoolers like on the Subaru engines - these are air-to-air intercoolers, which is why the Subarus have the hood scoop to direct cold air onto them.

On our engines, the chargecooler actually contains two radiators:


When the (hot) compressed air leaves the top of the supercharger, it enters the middle of this intercooler where it then travels through these radiators and into the inlet manifolds on each side of the supercharger.

These radiators are connected in a circuit with an electric water pump (this is what some people including me have upgraded) and a front-mounted radiator (and it's this radiator that Paramount sell a replacement for, and that I'm trying to DIY my own).


The idea is when the hot air blows over the radiators in the chargecooler, the coolant flowing through the system carries the heat to the radiator at the front, allowing the coolant to remain cool, and therefore the radiators inside the chargecooler stay cool and as a result they cool the air coming out of the supercharger - hence air-to-water chargecooler.

Hope this helps!

 

Also, annoyingly, even if there was space for larger or more efficient radiators in the chargecooler on top of the engine (there isn't), they're pretty much impossible to remove without destroying them as they're screwed and apparently glued into place!

 

you sir, are a blessing! this is exactly the info i was lacking and now i can better wrap my head around the plumbing of it and also the chilled water concepts. this must be a "closed loop" system, yes? with separate/different fluid from the cars engine cooling? any idea at what temp ranges this loop is to operate? ambient air temp + 20 to 30 degrees? does this system "overflow" to the same tank as the main coolant system on the drivers side of the engine bay?

 

It's not a completely closed/separate system, see item #4 above.

 

i appreciate the added info. yes, i see the note. i expect the only "connection" to the engine's cooling system then is the fact that they both push to and draw from the same overflow / expansion tank.

there should be 2 distinctly different operating temperatures between these systems - one (the charge cooling) that is running slightly above ambient temperatures at the charge cooling radiator and the other at a much higher engine coolant temp in excess of 200*F.

please correct me if I'm missing anything

 

I'm going to bet that the temps between the two sections (supercharger cooling and engine cooling) even out pretty quickly so both will be at the same temp (180F-200F range)

 

As I recall, people have measured and found that not to be so.

 

I wonder if it just relies on an air bubble of separation between the two circuits? Personally I can't see why you couldn't just replace the feed pipe (that taps off the main coolant radiator) with a pipe connected to a separate expansion tank. It wouldn't even need a particularly large one.

 

It could be split but don't expect much if any change.

 

Sorry in advance for the long-winded reply, but I promise I’m going somewhere with it… Last week, I upgraded to the Bosch charge pump, and while I was at it, I flushed my radiator and even gave everything in that area a good cleaning from the outside, too.

Side note, since I was playing around under there anyway, I decided to switch out some aftermarket exterior lighting, add a front bumper camera, replace my grille with a new all black version, black out my lower grilles, paint the growler emblem red and black, paint the headlight washer caps black (and completely removed the washer tubes from the car - headlight washers are useless to me), and switch to a black R Performance logo. But, I digress...

Regarding the cooling, I, too, have been exploring some additional options, since I live in Hotlanta and hate the idea of losing power to heat soak. I spoke with Paramount about their 30% larger intercooler last week, but the price seems pretty high. I’ve been considering a Killer Chiller, too, and am REALLY tempted to guinea pig it, but haven’t had the time to explore it further yet.

Howeva’, one thing that’s always bothered me is why my 2011 XFR only has a single “Auxiliary Radiator,” which is listed under the Intercooler section in parts diagrams (part # C2D23154), and also referred to as “Inter-Cooler.” It’s housed behind the lower passenger-side grille, and, instead of having another one, the driver-side just has a black plastic cap behind the grille, with a large, open, unused space behind it. Isn’t this a missed opportunity for an easy improvement? I once read somewhere that Jaguar determined that blocking that area off would be better for aerodynamics, blah, blah, blah… But, since I knew it would be easy to replace that cap if I ever wanted to (and I just don’t really care THAT much anymore), I cut a big hole in it to let air through, while not necessarily directing it anywhere. At the very least, I thought it might help flush out some of the hot air from the engine compartment, and the un-cut cap looks like it would actually impede better airflow, not help it (but what the hell do I know?).

I’d considered piping the new hole into the bottom of the airbox directly behind/above it, and even looked into running ducts to the brake rotors, but I ultimately ran out of time when I had to make a run in my car down to St. Simon’s Island, GA (326 miles South of where I live in Atlanta) for my wife’s 20th HS reunion. Since she’d driven down a day earlier than me in our family truckster (Range Rover Sport), and I didn’t have time to do anything else with the big hole before leaving, I decided it would be a good time to test any possible negatives from the increased airflow (lift, noise, etc.), in addition to putting the new Bosch charge pump through its paces. I also wanted to test out my newish StopTech slotted rotors, EBC red pads, Kalimnos wheels, spacer rearrangement, Mina intake wrapped with 2 layers of heat wrap (I yanked out the TCP intake), Mina exhaust (I kept the cutouts in place before the new Mina cans), etc.

Ultimately, though, everything performed extremely well, and I didn’t notice any negatives from the new hole. Granted, I really didn’t care to take too much of a scientific approach, and any additional noise generated from the new hole would’ve been hard to hear through my intake and exhaust mods, stereo, windows down 99.9% of the way, etc., but I got a REALLY good bit of steam going in several areas (I’ll let you boys use your imaginations, but let’s just say that I’m not afraid to push my car to the max on long stretches of open roads), and I didn’t feel any instability/lift, my hood louvers remained in place, my hood didn’t bounce around, and I didn’t get that WOO WOO (remember the whistler tips video?). Maybe the new hole didn’t have any benefit, per se, but I’ve just always hated that cap, and it’s my car, dab nabbit, so I shanked it.

Anyway, what it really did was make me further wonder how I/we could use that open space better. Without taking much time to research every bit of our cooling systems, I used my phone and the Googlez to see what I could find out… If nothing else, is it a possibility to add another auxiliary radiator to that area and just plumb it in with the other side, or something to that effect? Could the new pump take the added strain? My good friend has a 2012 XJ Supercharged, and his driver-side grille is also capped, so that didn’t help. Since I remembered that the XFR-S is supposed to benefit from better engine cooling design, I started looking at some photos of XFR-Ss, and thought I saw a similar auxiliary radiator on the diver-side. I know that the driver-side equivalent of our passenger-side auxiliary radiator actually exists (part # C2D23155), but I haven’t been able to confirm compatibility on any model. When reading about the F-Type SVR, I saw that they’d increased engine cooling and hot air removal, but I don’t exactly know how they keep doing these magics. Did they just keep our cars’ driver-side area capped so they could make an easy improvement one day to increase performance? Can anyone help me understand how that large open space behind the driver-side lower grille is being used in more recent performance Jaguar models, if at all? Am I just missing something?

 

My 2012 XF Supercharged has a radiator/cooler behind the drivers and passengers side lower grills. Not much is visible from above looking past the air boxes, but looking in from the front - through the grills. they look identical. definitely no blanking plate.

 

My XFR had this radiator on the RHS (driver's side on my RHD car) only and a blanking plate on the other side, same as Reaxions. Research told me that the extra/second radiator on the other side was only installed for "hot climate" market cars, eg Middle East, but Australia didn't qualify as "hot climate", go figure. I was a little peeved as it gets plenty hot here in li'l ol' Adelaide, 115 F in summer at times.
Also I was led to believe that this radiator is a supplementary engine coolant radiator and nothing to do with the supercharger, although as we know the two cooling systems are linked.

Edit - I checked the Workshop Manual and this radiator (called the auxiliary radiator in the manual) is definitely for engine cooling and not the supercharger, although it (or they) is only installed on the supercharged XF.
From the manual:
"In the cylinder block, the coolant flows forwards to the outlet tube. When the coolant is cold, the thermostat is closed and the
coolant flows direct from the outlet tube back to the coolant pump. Once the coolant reaches operating temperature the
thermostat begins to open, to control system temperature, and coolant flows from the outlet tube to the coolant pump via the
radiator and, on SC (supercharger) vehicles, the auxiliary radiator. When the thermostat is open, the coolant flow through the
radiator(s) also generates a coolant flow through the transmission fluid cooler."

 

Thanks for the info, fellas! So, I guess in some ways this is good news for me, as I have a bunch of extra space in there with easy access to the engine compartment, brakes, etc., and can either buy the corresponding parts or have something fabricated, to use that area however I (and others more knowledgeable than me on this forum) deem most beneficial. I smell a new project coming. Ha-ha!

It's still crazy to me that Jag would just put a cap there, instead of finding some other "highest and best use" scenario (The reasonable, probable and legal use of vacant land or an improved property, which is physically possible, appropriately supported, financially feasible, and that results in the highest value. ) for that area.

Having a little more time to do some research, I found this related thread on the topic: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ctional-63012/