Like I said, thousands of posts discussing what to use from soap and water,petrol,parrifin, parts washer solvent or you could use the k and n stuff at 12 quid a set, the point is it all costs and paper is cheaper and better , end of

 

So that's it, is it? End of discussion? You're right and everyone else is wrong, despite all the evidence to the contrary?

As other posters have stated, people read these forums to try and get information and make informed decisions and if you're authoritatively making declarations that are quite frankly bullshit (such as engine damage - engine damage! - from fitting a K&N filter, my sides) as though it's gospel, people might not have any reason not to believe it.

It's fine to have a discussion and debate about this stuff, but to make all these statements that fly in the face of decades of evidence to the contrary, with very little evidence (and apparently knowledge) to back it up, and then get all indignant when people point this out to you isn't very cool.

 

Try this:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads...2040364/page-2

There are hundreds more but I dont see why I should do all of the work for you blinkeredness. The first one covers all of the aspects I mentioned, they cost more, do little for HP, provide reduced filtration and reduce the life of engines. But then again , you wont read it and just reply with some bulls**t again. Ive got nothing to prove, I dont have to prove that paper works.

 

Part of this is if they're so good and there are so many easy HP to get why don't Jaguar use them or an equivalent?

Seriously, is anyone suggesting that Jaguar would pass up more HP if there were no downsides?

You can try to say it's the need to clean/oil/etc. Sure that could be it, but when Jaguar sell the car they expect owners to take them in for dealer service and the dealer could do whatever is needed.

No, it's because they can cause damage and faults and there's very little HP gain for that.

 

They will just say that it robs jag dealers of extra revenue from selling paper filters at extortionate prices

 

There are many good reasons Jaguar don't use K&N-style filters in their cars from the factory.

For example, the increased induction noise might be something a lot of car enthusiasts appreciate but we are definitely in the minority. Most people who buy a Jaguar want it to be quiet. This is evidenced by the huge amount of NVH research that car manufacturers do, including steps that Jaguar have taken with our engines - a good example is the intake pipes people replace on the SC models - the originals are restrictive and have chambers specifically to reduce induction noise.

However, the biggest reason of them all is cost. I knew someone at university who was employed by Ford with the objective to save 1 penny off the cost of manufacture of the radios used in their cars. Doesn't seem like much, but when they make millions, it pays off. K&N style filters are considerably more expensive than paper filters, so it'd be madness to fit every new car with one even if it does give a small HP increase and lasts longer, as car's owners are responsible for the cost of filters for the majority of the car's life, so why bother fitting a more expensive type of filter, even if it brings advantages?

None of the above means that you shouldn't fit one if you want to. I'm not arguing that the filters are more expensive, or that everyone should fit K&N filters. But to claim the fact that Jaguar don't do it means there's no advantage to doing so is asinine. What about exhaust upgrades, smaller supercharger pulleys, engine remapping? If you can get more power out of these cars by remapping them, why don't Jaguar just do that at the factory?

Answer: Because Jaguar have to sell the car to a wide range of people, who have a wide range of requirements, so they have to have a baseline that fits everyone (basically: that sells the most cars). That's absolutely sensible, but it does mean that you can't use "Well, otherwise Jaguar would be doing it" as a reason to not do something.

 

Looks like the same arguments on that site as here. Two sides of th same coin. Live and let live phanco every one has a choice in life.

 

But Dave you know the manufacturers and dealers ALWAYS put performance and the customers FIRST!

 

Stay cheap buddy...

 

Personally, I am really looking forward to dropping in some K&N's when I get my oil changed next. I have 25 years of race experience and currently run K&N in all my other cars and have had nothing but trouble free experiences out of all of them.

Also I never could understand how people can say that K&N is more expensive. You buy it, when it gets dirty you wash it, and then you re-oil it and put it back in your car. You buy it once and your done. I have a 1991 Nissan 300zx that I have a K&N cone filter on and it has been on there for 13 years, and guess what!?! Zero issues. However finicky you think our engines are, the VG30DETT engine is WAYYYYYYY worse.

On a side note I read the first link and it is definitely a promotional piece for ACDelco.
The forum link was very nonsensical and confirms why I hate forums in the first place. To many opinionated people that think they know everything.

Sorry to get on a soapbox, but the point of a forum is for people to ask questions and get valuable answers. The only answers I consider valuable are those provided by people who either have had or are currently going through the same experience and not by people who want to spread their opinions or want to chime in to see their own posts. Sorry for the rant

 

I have used K and N in the past , so i think I'm entitled to an opinion. Apart from making a nice induction noise and costing 6 time more than paper, they made no difference to the running of both the cars I've tried them on. Not wasting another penny on them

 

Fair enough, and yes - opinions are like ******** - everyone has one.

But there's a difference between declaring that you think they're a waste of money, or that the gains are overrated or whatever, and telling people that they risk engine damage if they fit them. The first is a perfectly valid opinion. The second is unsubstantiated alarmist bullshit.

 

and I suppose that the filter study and the link to the forum where someone had reported engine damage isnt good enough for you? It is undeniable that they let in substantially more dirt than standard filters. At the end of the day the filters do a job, you could throw away the filters entirely and have no restriction at all. would you do that? so where is your proof that they do no damage at all? just a few K&N fan boys saying that they have had no issues is no proof at all. at the end of the day dirt is an engine killer, the more it digests, the shorter the engine life. If you had read the link you would know that some engines running these filters were coming up with bad oil samples, particularly silicon. High silicon is a sure fire result of inadequate air filtration and can destroy engines. is it worth the risk for a couple of Hp?

 

And I say again, K&N has been around since 1969, you don't last that long with a product that is as you say, does not work, is cost prohibitive and destroying engines. There's a reason K&N's 47 years of proven air filter technology has so many "Fan boys", but keep your faith in your powerpoint study, and stay cheap fella.

 

I tell you what cracks me up, on the forum link, a K&N rep posted a reply to some of the criticism on there and got banned off the site, hilarious. Keep spending , its your money

 

omg!!! can someone close this thread.

 

Back then engines did not have extremely sensitive control systems using MAFs etc and also were not tuned like now (especially in USA cars). Times have changed.

Overall, each owner gets to choose whether to use K&N and whether for that owner the perceived gains are worth the risks.

Trying to convince the fanboys is pointless - very like the oil fanboys (magnetic oils... yeah).

 

Times have changed, and 47 years later K&N is STILL AROUND, so apparently either their product DID AND IS DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY CLAIM.
OH, and magnetic oil dose exist, and is used under license from GM by the likes of FERRARI, LAMBO AND BUGATTI.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magn...ological_fluid

Mike DROPPED...LOL

 

Nonsense, tests have proven time and again any illusions of increased power are due to elevated intake noise. This is being produced at a great cost to your engine, these filters don't work very well. They're also likely to destroy you MAF with the oil. OEM or equivalent every time.

 

I've been using oiled K&N air filters on my 2011 XFR since I bought it new in 2011 and the engine has only exploded three times, with the MAFs only spontaneously combusting ninety-eight times. Plus, I've been using oiled K&N filters on all of my other cars since I was a kid (I'm 47), and I've only lost seven thousand engines, so I totally get your point.