Hi everyone. Recent convert from BMW really enjoying my new XF, but am interested in a sportier suspension set up. As I do some digging, I see almost no aftermarket suspension options at all for our car, other than a couple of lowering spring options. Perhaps I was spoiled by the thriving Bimmer aftermarket, but are there really no coilover or sport dampers out there? Please tell me I'm missing something.

 

It's already perfect.

 

Well, there's no such thing, is there? Different suspension setups accommodate different driving styles and handling preferences. From the factory, it's slightly on the sporty side of neutral. Some of us prefer a sportier set up with less body roll in hard cornering. It would be nice to have options.

 

Spires has a coil over for our car. Very pricey!! If your looking for a little lower and visual appeal, I would recommend the H&R springs. They seem to lower the car the most and they are the cheapest.

 

Thanks chXFS, but I'm reluctant to go to a stiffer coil without a corresponding upgrade to stiffer dampers. That's typically a formula for a very bouncy ride. Are there forum members running the H&R's on stock dampers with no ride issues?

 

What I mean is the Jaguar factory boys are all over this issue which is why the aftermarket isn't.

If you have an XF then fitting XFR suspension would help, bearing in mind it is hard to retrofit the computer controlled adjustable suspension. If you have an XFR already then the only improvement you could make would be to fit the rear subframe, front uprights and other bits from the XFR S.

As for assessing the relative effects of body roll, spring rates and damper rates I doubt any aftermarket supplier would be going head to head with Jaguar engineers.

Body roll is totally misunderstood by lay people. A road car can handle very well and still roll quite a bit. The usual mistake is to assume a stiffer spring rate will improve handling. This is the German solution. On real roads it doesn't work. Improving handling for a road car us pretty difficult to achieve but lots of people waste lots of money trying to beat the factory boys. Usually it can't be done with higher end cars.

That's why nobody is. Trying to beat Jaguar that is.

Just by the by BMW is one if the worst offenders in this regard. Somehow they've brainwashed most Americans into thinking higher spring rates, particularly at the rear, improve handing. They don't but they do make a mess of the ride. Trouble is, they've convinced just about everyone that this is the way a sports sedan should ride. They're completely wrong of course. The number one defect in modern performance sedans is rear spring rates with too high rates. Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura all make the same mistake. To feel how a performance road car should ride drive a Jaguar, a SAAB or a Maserati or Alfa Romeo.

 

Haven't heard any problems as of yet. It's a mixture of springs being used. Eibach, Mina, and H&R.

 

Couldn't disagree more regarding aftermarket suspension. However, you get what you pay for. If you buy some cheap ebay junk you may end up with worse handling and terrible ride quality. On the flip side, an ohlins setup with (even) 1000 lb springs in many cases can provide a near stock-like ride with vastly improved handling. It all comes down to the quality of the dampers and a good aftermarket damper will almost always exceed those specified by the factory.

 

Who's supplying Ohlins (Yamaha, apparently) for the XF? You'd have to be a bit nuts to fit Ohlins to an XF in the hope of improving the ride/handling equation.

Jaguar fits Bilsteins as far as I know. Springs are just steel with a specified rate. Paying for "better" springs isn't really possible, steel is steel. You can buy stiffer springs though they will also be shorter which can play havoc with camber and toe characteristics.

Paying for good dampers is worthwhile but these are all made by the majors: Sachs Boge (now part of the ZF empire) and Bilstein (Krupps) are two major makers. I don't think anybody makes better dampers than Bilstein.

Never fit higher rate springs without fitting stiffer dampers. Never. The other way around may work if the factory got the damper settings wrong in the first place but Jaguar didn't.

The initial post was about why there are no aftermarket suspension "upgrades". The answer is: because nobody can beat Jaguar at their own game. To improve the base suspension you need electronically controlled adjustable dampers. These cannot easily be retrofitted to base cars. Indeed, if you could upgrade to the new XJR air spring setup you could get better ride and preserve the existing excellent handling. Cheaper to buy an XJR though.

 

Tmac, from your signature it appears you do not have a SC or XFR. Model. Just wondering if you test drove either . In dynamc and sport mode you may be closer to what your seeking. I bought the SC to get the dynamic suspension. I drive with it engaged at all times as I prefer the ride and driving in this mode.

 

Thanks for the replies and discussion. Here are a couple of thoughts. First, I do think Jag has done a nice job on the stock suspension. But propagating the idea that they got it "perfect" for all possible driving styles and requirements is lunacy. Race cars are set up differently than luxury cars, right. Further, suggesting that this perfection is why there's a weak aftermarket is even crazier. As a business man, I'm fairly certain that supply and demand rules, and a weak aftermarket is far more likely a result of the relatively small number of XFs on the road than it is an inability to top the miracle of Jaguar factory suspension.

Less sarcastically, factory suspension is almost always tuned to fit the broadest array of drivers. That's where BMW gets it right by offering a sport suspension option from the factory. But even with that, there are sound reasons to amend, supplement or replace factory suspensions. It's not an insult to Jag, BMW, or even Maserati when a different suspension setup is desired. I understand and accept that my preferred setup is tighter/firmer than many will like. But I want stability on turns and curves at high speeds and, in spite of what was suggested above, body roll under those conditions is NOT desirable.

All that said, I do see a few spring options (as some have mentioned) but I see absolutely no sporty damper options. (Am I missing any?) And I do agree with Jagular that you should NEVER marry firm springs to soft dampers.

 

Lunacy? R u sure?

Supply and demand?

Haven't you both answered your own question and proved my point?

 

No, but carrying on a conversion with a granite wall is pointless.

OP, check out this thread. It won't be cheap, but if you want a top of the line coilover setup, it may be one avenue to pursue:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...xk8-xkr-85058/

There is currently no mass market kit for these cars as there is for Audis, BMWs, Porsches, etc. because there are far fewer XFs sold and the customer base tends to be a bit, well, greyer (present company excluded, of course) .

 

The questions were rhetorical. I agree with your first statement but it is merely a tautology.

An XK8 is a totally different car from the XF.

North American sales of the XF have exceeded 40,000 units, all using the same suspension geometry. You can add substantial European and Asian sales to those numbers.

The aftermarket is big enough but there is insufficient demand for suspension "upgrades". That is obviously because improvement is virtually impossible.

 

Spires :: Engineered Performance for Jaguar and BMW

Just a coilover set up, using Bilsteins. For $4,000.00! Mind you despite being listed on the XF page it seems the kit is intended for the S Type R. It will fit the XF but it may not work.

Maybe this would be enough for around $1,000.00

http://www.spires-st.com/index.php/s...xfr-suspension

Note Spires offers a "comfort" package implying that some regard the stock suspension as too stiff. Also, Spires comments that the XF doesn't respond well to lowering. They offer lowering springs but no dampers implying the spring rates are sufficiently close to stock that no damper change is required. However, a bit more research reveals that Spires rebuilds the stock dampers to their settings. The drop is limited to 15 mm which is 5/8 inch approx.

If Spires doesn't offer suspension kits for the XF then probably nobody does.

 

Adam Smith must be rolling over in his grave regarding the assertion that Jaguar has sold enough copies of the XF to create a viable market for aftermarket suspension bits. BMW sells as many 5 series per year just in the US as Jaguar's total global production since job 1 on the XF five years ago. That's the one and only reason there isn't a more robust market for aftermarket suspension (or for that matter aftermarket virtually anything) on the XF. Fortunately for us, Jaguar did get things pretty right... But, virtually impossible to improve? Too much Kool Aid.

 

I agree that there is no such thing as the perfect suspension. The guy who drives over badly broken roads for long distances wants a different suspension than someone who prefers to eat up canyon roads where the surfaces are in good condition.

Having said that I agree that Jaguar does not have much of an aftermarket. I also will say that my stock 2012 XF suspension is the best Jaguar suspension that I have owned. My '05 and '08 XKs were not particularly good handlers and had inaccurate steering. My 2012 XJL suspension is terrible, far too stiff for a luxury sedan. It will beat you up on long drives over average road surfaces. What were the Jaguar suspension people thinking???

The XF is better, more compliant than the XJL and it is also more agile in its handling. Still, it does roll a bit too much for my taste and the springs on it are also too stiff. Seem like Jaguar thinks that stiff springs = sporty handling. Not in my book. I prefer a lowered suspensions with softer springs that absorb road imperfections instead of bouncing off of them and larger anti-sway bars to control the roll. But, since the rear camber in the Jaguars are not adjustable to compensate for the lowered stance, I stay away from lowering. There is already enough factory camber in the XF rears, while my particular car is maxed out at only -0.3 degrees up front. Not enough by any measure when the rears are set to -1.5.

Still, I am not complaining. The XF has the best steering of my past and present Jags and as long as you keep the car in the proper gear to keep the RPMs in the power band, you can steer the car quite effectively with the torque of the V8. Sure, I'd love to lower it, put larger rear sway bar but, not going to happen, due to the issues described above.

Good luck with your customization. Let us know if you come across some good equipment that tunes the XF in your favor.

Albert

 

There have been a few in the XK8 section who have tried chassis stiffening hardware from this company. No anti-sway bar for the XF it seems, but some other chassis components.

Do they work... well, the engineer in me is a little skeptical given how low they mount in the chassis, but it's just steel, so it couldn't hurt.

Jaguar Aftermarket Performance Parts / Accessories / Spare Part - Ultra Racing Product Catalog

 

After reading the posts the question I have is, are there lowering springs for the XFR? The goal here is to leave the everything in place except the springs. Arden has springs for the XFR (30mm lower). Arden has tested the springs and said it works very well with no problems while maintaining the same ride quality. From what I understand about Arden is that they are a very reputable company and EXPENSIVE.

Along the same note, Eibach makes springs ONLY for the XF and they will not confirm that their springs will work on a XFR, though they said it should....?

However, axr6 makes a good point about the non adjustable rear camber.

has anyone lowered their XFR and have you incurred any problems?

 

Mina sells lowering springs as well but I can't speak to whether it's a good idea or not.

Jaguar XF lowering springs Mina for Jaguar XK8 XKR