Hi everyone I just found out some info from one of my jaguar tech friends. That their are some 5.0 s/c engines are blowing because of low oil levels and burning oil. The oil level light comes on when there is only two qt. left in the oil pan. That is way to late for it to come on I think. They have two cars that came in for the oil light being on and finding out later that the cus needs new engines and that Jaguar will not cover it because they are claiming abuse they are looking at the ECU's and black box's to find out what RPM and speed they are ruining them at and found them to be ruining 3k-6k and calling it excessive revving and red lining which they are not. All the cus are going by the book for maintenance and oil changes. The cars have less then 20k on them. What my friend is telling me is you should change the oil around 5k and go up in weight and not do the 15k oil change that jag go by. This is what i heard just wanted to let people know and that the new short blocks are going FOR $17,000. That the cus has to pay.

Like i always tell my friend's oil is cheap engines are not!! Check ur oil. I know u cant on the new car's NO dipstick!

 

I work on jaguars for starters. I have never seen one 5.0 get replaced for oil consumption that is excessive beyond specs. I have seen the 5.0 get replaced for manufacture defects. Example of that being a crack in the block causing coolant to leak. Another interesting note is that if these customers are "abusing" there cars. The ECM is mapped with an alogyrthim that requires you to do your servicing if it goes beyond what Jaguar considers normal. Like high reving, "abusive" driving. I'm sure there is more to the story here then just hearsay.

 

I would never go 15,000 on a oil change. I don't care what the maintenance suggests if it doesn't break down it will still be dirty and most likely low. My Audi is the same high mileage oil changes, personally 3,000 for standard oil and 5,000 for synthetic it is a small price to pay for peace of mind. Today you can buy a car with 45,000 on the clock and 2 oil changes!!

 

A customer should ask how they can be accused of abuse or neglect of the oil if they have been precluded from checking said oil and limited to following the maintenance schedule as a means of maintaining the correct level.

Additionally, if the oil is low following the mandated maintenance schedule, then either Jaguar is wrong, or that particular engine is not able to retain the oil as designed. The choice is latent defect or specific defect.

Finally, there is a rev limiter. Anything under the rev limiter ought to be fine as Jaguar has complete freedom to determine the setting. If 6000 rpm is too high, then they should have set it lower.

 

You still can check the oil level. In the Jaguar you just don't need anything as old-fashioned as a dipstick to do it though. Unfortunately the original post smacks of BS. You can check the oil easily enough. You can't over-rev the engine. This is the first time this "problem" has been mentioned on any forum. And Mike Karesh's True Delta makes no mention of this being an issue. Sounds like a hoax to me.

 

You can check the oil level in the message display its in the MANUAL!!!
Also yes I wouldnt wait 15k I dont care either what Jaguar says its just cheap insurance. And yes the maintenace oil change is accelrated for "spirited" driving, NO manufacturer runs the cars close to the edge of capabilties which is why tuning can pull alot more hp out. Engines (all) are on the FRED list to which Jaguar has to give approval and test to determine failrue etc BEFORE a replacement can be done. So there is alot more control over warranty issues like this than ever before

 

Hey everyone I just want to let people know what i heard from my guy. I am just letting people know what I heard and just wanted to let peolpe have this info. take it for what it is. If you checking your oil more or keeping a eye on ur engine more, or if u take nothing from it. I just wanted to let people know what i heard. As to beign a hoax i have nothing to gain and i dont thing my guy has anything to gain from it. He was just telling me this that their are 3 cases in the midde west and that is what the field rep from jag told him about not covering the repairs. Maybe their is more to it i dont know. As for the checking the oil ya you can check on the display. i was talking about with the dipstick, i like to look at it my self.
It is what it is. Its all good in my book.

 

I may sound old school but I would like to have a car regardless of brand come with the dipstick . It's good to hear that manual states that but let's not forget some car owners never look at manuals .Pop up the hood and pull up the dipstick and see the level that's it , very easy method
Jaguar is not alone so MBs also don't come with the dipstick

 

I agree. You need a dip stick. It's completely idot proof and I check while filling up the car at a gas station. Also, taught my kids to do the same.

 

+2 on the dipstick

at least it isn't subject to sensor failure/calibration/software bugs

and you don't need a manual to use it

maybe it's a ploy to keep the cars away from Jiffy Lube

 

I don't see what the fuss is about. The electronic "dipstick" works just fine, unlike the prehistoric metal strip that never told you accurately what the real level of oil was. How could it when people checked it while fueling up at the gas station? The oil was in every single gallery and not in the sump where you needed it to be to measure it accurately. And people still never measured their oil even when they had a dipstick. Every shade tree mechanic has a story of a car owner who brought their car in making a funny noise and never realized that you had to check the oil, or God forbid, top it up. So much for people reading an instruction book. Plus ça change...

What also surprises me is that Europeans manage to make longer service and oil change cycles work perfectly well, despite having higher speeds and tougher driving conditions, and yet Americans can't. Did Jaguar fit less robust engines in the USA?

 

but how much oil is in the pan when the level is no longer on the dipstick? Does it have 6qts left, 3, or none?

 

lol yep and dip sticks left up not seated or missing orings create vacuum leaks. Dont beleive me, open the oil fill cap and see how the engine runs on the 4.2's and 5.0's.
My understanding is europe has much cleaner, better gas than we do and no ethanol. Talking to jaguar engineers and they hate u.s. Gas..... They initially designed the 5.0 to run on no more than 5% ethanol and do not like the idea of 10% and many times can be higher

 

That is exactly why I'm on the "defund the EPA" bandwagon!

Cheers,

 

A dipstick is, unfortunately, not idiot proof. My dealer has over filled the sump on my XF every oil change by between 200 and 1800 ml (a fifth of a quart to two quarts!).

Jaguar specifies that the engine oil can only be checked after at least ten minutes after engine shut down or the reading will be incorrect.

With a 6.5 liter sump (7 quarts) the engine is not going to run out of oil between changes. The modern emission controls prevent any oil burning engines from being sold. If the engine burns too much oil it will fail emissions and the manufacturer has to replace it under US and Canadian law.

 

Your statement about cars being unable to burn enough oil to be a problem with todays emissions system is not true. I have seen cars come in down 3 or 4 quarts of oil & still running& no check engine light on. The first sign oil oil consumption is smoke on initial start. I have also never heard of any engine failures on the 5.0 engine.

 

No check engine light on is irrelevant. There is no CO sniffer in the tail pipe. CEL detects only electrical failure of some engine control function, unless the O2 sensor goes consistently out of range due to mixture issues which in itself will now be electronic 99% of the time.

Modern engines burn very little oil unless they develop a serious fault.

Dipsticks are only as reliable as the person using them. Electronic oil level indicators work just fine, so far. The older float type which would switch a light on if the level dropped to a certain point were very reliable and usually failed in the fault mode to ensure the driver had the faulty indicator replaced. I believe the new electronic level indicators have redundant software.

The issue with the electronic indicators is operator error, misinterpreting the display.

The US government wants engines that run for 100,000 miles within emissions spec with no driver maintenance requirements and only oil changes required at lengthy intervals.

 

I have a 2010 Jaguar XKR, engine blew up after 19,000 miles, 5,000 miles after last oil change.

I rather foolishly informed Jaguar of the modifications I had done to it, supercharger pulley mod and performance exhaust and cat (All Paramount Performance) thinking honesty would be the best approach.

Jaguar refused warranty based on my modifications, they also criticized me for running up to the red line when accelerating. I laughed at that, the engine is electronically limited, and I bought a Jag to drive it, not ***** foot aroud in it.

Jaguar wanted $32,000 for a new engine install!!

I had the engine stripped by a local mechanic, I can provide pictures if you like. It clearly shows oil starvation, although the oil level warning light did not come on at any time, neither did low oil pressure.

The engine modifications did not contribute to the problem at all.

We are aerospace engineers here at my work so we conducted our own analysis of the failure.

The oil pickup is at the front of the engine and during hard continuous aceleration the oil is moved to the back of the pan and the pickup just sucks air if the engine oil level is low ( But not low enough to cause a warning light).

This happened to me, it is real problem for all 5.0 supercharged engines.

I have since purchased a new engine and intend to put baffles in the sump and be super vigilant about oil level.

Jaguar has been awful thoughout this process, even though I own two Jaguars and three Range Rovers!

Ian Cotton - Orbital Energy Ltd

 

IAN,
I dont know about Canadian laws, but in the US just because you modify a car does NOT meen the warranty is voided. even for the engine if modded. UNLESS the modifcation CAUSED the failure and can be proven. read the Magnusson Moss Warranty act. I would think canada may have something similar. Changing your claim from warranty to customer pay is alot more money to a dealership from what youll pay vs the manufacturer and what they pay. Now if you smoked a piston. I could see that, but failure to tear down and determine the ROOT cause and just deny warranty based in modification is against the law in the US....
I didnt go to Nissan after smoking a hole in the piston (under warranty still)from a momentary lean condition on my 4x4 05 Frontier that I supercharged and went from 200 rear wheel hp to 330. I rebuilt the engine, custom cp forged pistons, bigger fuel pump, cams, billet connecting rods and I ported the heads and had a perfromance valve job done. Now if a wheel bearing or something else not related to the extra power the engine now puts out had failed, I would have been knocking on their door

 

Thanks very much for the quick reply, although I have the car here in Canada, I did buy it in the States new when I was living there last year.
You are correct they did no work with regard to determining the cause of the problem.
This was Jaguar Calgary.
I am sure I am not alone with this problem as it is a fundamental design flaw, but jaguar refuse to release the failure rate to me.
The fix is easy, a simple baffle arrangement and raising the oil level switch alarm level.

Thanks again.