I have a 2011 Jaguar XJL Supercharged with 65,000 miles that has a knocking noise and is in restricted performance mode. The timing chain and tensioner were replaced by a shop, but that did not fix the issue and I’ve been told there is internal engine damage. The internal engine damage has not been identified. The car itself is in excellent shape, but I don’t know how to proceed to address the internal engine damage as the shop is recommending replacing the engine with a used engine from the salvage yard, but that concerns me as I don’t know the history of the engine from the salvage yard. Does anyone have any insight on how to proceed in Arizona? Any recommendations will be appreciated. Thank you.

 

Davin,

Let's see how much response there is here. If it's limited, I'll move the thread to X351 forum so members with the same model see it.


Arizona ....... or anywhere else on the Planet, the way to proceed is with CAUTION.

The first move for a running engine with a knocking noise and restricted performance is to determine the reason(s) for both of these conditions and that starts with getting the codes read. If the shop has not or cannot identify the problem but are immediately suggesting a used replacement engine without justifying the recommendation, find another shop because this one is either incompetent or worse.

If the codes don't narrow down the cause(s) of the issue, the next step would be some limited dismantling to determine whether the source is top end (valve gear) / block (pistons) / bottom end (crankshaft).

If it proves to be mechanically serious then rebuilding a Jaguar engine is expensive in parts alone and therefore a warranted used unit from a breaker is the lower cost option. To avoid trouble, it is best taken from the same specification and model year although there is flexibility here. However, compromising can cost to make everything match.

I would pinpoint the trouble before considering spending. I'd also want to know what the final cost is going to be before giving the go ahead. There is a serious risk of exceeding the value of the vehicle by approaching the repair in the wrong way.

Graham

 

These two get the most recommendations in Phoenix British Auto seems to be favourite-

1) British Auto in Scottsdale.
https://britishautoaz.com/

2) Dave's Import Service in Phoenix.
Daves Import Service

I've used British Auto, with a fairly satisfactory result, perhaps one of these is where you went already

https://eurosportphoenix.com/

Is another option, you pays your money and you takes your chance.

Good advice from Grahahm above.

 

Thank you for the response Graham. Yes, after replacing the timing chain and tensioner and those components not fixing the issue I'm being more cautious. The error codes were not shared with me even though I paid for a diagnosis. I will reach out to the shop and request the error codes to see if they were documented. If I receive the error codes I will post them. Thanks again for your insight. I appreciate it.

 

Norri,

Thank you for the response. I haven't worked with those shops yet, but I plan to reach out to them. Thanks for the shop recommendations. I appreciate it.

Never hurts to get a second opinion especially with the figure that was quoted to me to replace the engine with a salvaged engine.

 

@Graham @Norri + others (open to all input). Thanks!

FYI: I just received the error codes from the shop.

P0026-72 INTAKE VALVE CONTROL SOLENOID-
CIRCUIT RANGE/PERFORMANCE[BANK1]
P0026-77
........................................
......................
P0028-72
........................................
...............[BANK2]
P0028-77
........................................
......................
P0016-00 CRANKSHAFT POSITION-CAMSHAFT
POSITION CORRELATION-BANK1,SENSOR1.
P0018-
00......................................
............-BANK2,SENSOR1.
P054C-00 COLD START EXHAUST B-CAMSHAFT
POSITION TIMING-OVER-ADVANCED BANK2.

 

Here's the Possible Causes for that set of codes from the Workshop Manual:



As you have already had the timing chains and tensioners replaced, the likely culprits are:

1. timing not correct
2. faulty Intake Valve Solenoid
3. faulty CPS (Camshaft Position Sensor) or harness

This is one "do what I've already paid for" and two relatively low cost "possible" solutions. Worth investigating and eliminating before moving on to the big $$$$ option.

Graham

 

Davin,

I've moved this from General Tech Help to X351 forum for two reasons:

1. already had good input but perhaps get more from members with the same model
2. your experience will be of wide interest to members with this model

I've left an "expiring re-direct" so anyone who has already followed it in General Tech Help will easily find the new location.

Graham

 

If you need a budgetary number to work with, I just finished having a used 2011 engine installed. I had oil starvation caused by blowby in cylinder 1 bank 1. Normally I would have caught this long before failure, but had a few life things get in my way.

I had the shop update timing chain and tensioners while the used engine was out. All in was about 40 hours of labor. The engine was $9k from a rear end damage vehicle in the south.

 

@dmchao Thanks for the information. Did you have a knocking sound and restricted performance mode too? The figure provided to me was $18K to replace the engine with a used engine and that is close or more than the car is worth, so I declined moving forward with the shop and will get a second opinion as that seems very high.

 

I destroyed several XJ6 engines in my youth. When I found it cost 50% of the value of the vehicle to supply and fit a used engine, I learned to do it myself and reduced this to around 25%.

Your $18K quote certainly caught my attention. I searched for 2011 XJL S/C for sale and also used matching engines for sale and found my percentages from all those years ago still hold true. I know used Jaguars are worth a lot more in the USA and used parts also cost more than they do here in the UK but the relative percentages still hold true. If your vehicle is worth approximately $18K then $9K for a fitted used engine or $4.5K for a DiY replacement has to be closer to the right numbers.

Graham

 

I had restricted performance at the same time my engine seized, about 2 minutes after some tinny sounding tapping started to appear. I added oil to interpolate how much until I read full via the sensor. By that method, I wager I was about 5 quarts low, and it seized when I was pulling over to check out the sound. I had tinny top end knocking, which makes some sense to me. I did not have a low bottom end knock.

Keep in mind, my career is in automotive and industrial manufacturing and I live and die by preventative maintenance. I launched several vehicle programs over the course of my career. It can happen to anyone, in my case, when focused on higher priorities, fluids slipped right by

The shop I work with is very skilled for an independent that deals with all makes and models, in my opinion and their labor rates are low at about $85/hr. They broke down what took them the longest, and there were some hiccups unmating the trans from the engine because it was seized. We ended up agreeing that the fastest way to separate would be to cut the oil pan and access the bolts for torque converter/clutch plate there.

The rest is about as standard as a transplant can go. I'd replace all the accessories on the donor engine if it's old and does not have an updated water pump and do your cooling at the same time if you choose to go that route. Something to note is that KBB and NADA are guiding values for this vehicle, but do not reflect market pricing. So don't hurry to the scrap yard, if your first quote comes back high.

 

Here's another option https://falconworks.net/ we had a member some time ago who had a lot of serious mods done on a XKR and he loved these guys.
They are in Tucson but that's not the end of the world if you feel you can trust them.

 

2011 Jaguar XJL Supercharged: To make things even more difficult for myself I disconnected the positive only lead to the battery and closed the trunk as I didn't want the battery to drain. Now I can't get into the trunk to reconnect the positive lead to the battery... arg! Is the only way to get the trunk open now is to remove the rear seats? The rear passenger doors are locked too.

I haven't tried to connect an external battery to the fuse block under the hood. Will that possibly work instead of removing the rear seats? Want to ask first before I create more problems for myself.

 

Yes, by connecting external battery to the fuse box under the hood are the method to open trunk. This are also noted on manual. (Do not try to turn ignition on without trunk battery connected!)
However: You wrote that you removed positive lead only. Never, ever do that!!! Always remove negative lead!!!
When you work with positive lead, while negative are still connected to the battery, and your tool touches metal frame of the vehicle; You create short circuit and huge spark, bright hot tool, even exploding battery!!
Another thing: Now the positive lead are loose in the trunk. If that touches to the frame of the vehicle when you apply power from external battery -> Again short circuit!!

 

Yikes, I won't do that again. I will carefully give it a try and post the results. Thank you @Vasara

 

@Vasara That worked. Thank you! I also found that I did disconnect the negative lead instead of the positive lead, so that was good. The trunk is open now. Thanks again. Davin

 

Hi Davin Noto. Great!! Thanks to let us know.