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Timing chain tensioners and guides, stuck on PS pulley and Crank hub.
Hello, in my way to do preventive guides and tensioners. I hit another wall with the power steering pump pulley. There is a bolt on the right side timing cover that the pulley is on my way it seems, I took off the bolts but it seems like the pulley is also pressed on. But I can’t use a typical pulley removal tool as there is no lip in the shaft area. Do I need a special tool?
I was trying to use a pipe fitters chain wrench on the hub pulley, but want to confirm if the bolt loosens the opposite way, so to the right?
Last edited by ricardoa1; Apr 27, 2020 at 09:35 AM.
The crank bolt can be threaded either direction depending on your VIN. Sometimes a number printed on the bolt will indicate direction. Call Jaguar parts department to get the correct bolt for your vehicle. I copy and pasted an excerpt from Dave Tibbs about the XF bolt removal process, which should be similar:
“For a bolt stamped 12.9, it's reverse threaded, so you need to turn it clockwise to loosen it. And yes, the bolt is in tight. Either a high-powered torque gun or a breaker bar with some sort of tubular extension will be required.
There are indeed special tools to remove and reinstall the crank pulley - one that holds the pulley in place while you loosen and tighten the crank pulley bolt. The official service manual instructions state to remove the timing locking tool when loosening and tightening the bolt (I suspect to avoid damage to the flexplate), relying on the tool holding the pulley (and the crank) while the bolt is removed or reinstalled.
Thanks I was able to remove the PS pulley a little finagle but it's not pressed on just rusted on the hub a little.
I removed the crank pulleys and exposed the hub, trying ways of keeping it in place without special tools, I notice a 12 on the bolt so I believe I need to go clockwise to loose. I'm starting to get paranoid with the engine cranking by hand it makes it sorts of noise
at the VVT supposedly it should not jump teeth with all bolted down. A big surprise will be if I find updated parts in here but I doubt they have been changed.
Crank bolt is a bear I’m afraid of snapping it and causing more issues.
I can faintly see in this picture I have the 12.9 bolt.
Can someone take a look at the Ford casting number on the tensioner slide and see if have the defective one, I assume the revised one will have a revised Ford casting number. If you have the parts handy pls take a look for me? I will skip this going further if I have revised parts.
While you are in there you should be able to measure the width of the timing chains.
The "old" (problematic) ones are 6.3 mm wide while the "new" (updated) ones are 8 mm wide.
If you have 6.3 mm chains then you also have the old tensioners and guides, if you have 8 mm chains then you have the new tensioners and guides as you can't mix and match these parts.
Thank you,
The chain did measure 8mm but not sure.
Miraculously I got the bolt out. I was reluctant to use heat for fear of damage on the seal, as I was planning to reuse the cover. So I propane torched it. Not sure if it helped really but I gave it a tug and it went. I did mangle the pipe fitting tool.
The new parts won’t be here for a bit the tensioners are on backorder. But managed to source some last inventory from various locations.
I can’t get the timing paint marks on the chains to line up with their respective indicators. Does Jaguar not use these during assembly? Is this just a shop aid. I’m afraid that engine is not in time but I have not taken anything apart that is timing related. I did rotate counter clockwise to get to the crank bolts but o realized engines should only be turned clockwise. Still I can’t imagine the chain jumping from this but anything is possible. Also my sprockets look totally different than images I found. I’m not comfortable doing the zip tie method if I can’t replicate the procedure. My hardware looks different.
While you are in there you should be able to measure the width of the timing chains.
The "old" (problematic) ones are 6.3 mm wide while the "new" (updated) ones are 8 mm wide.
If you have 6.3 mm chains then you also have the old tensioners and guides, if you have 8 mm chains then you have the new tensioners and guides as you can't mix and match these parts.
As far as I have seen all XJ (x351) have the 8mm pitch. I understand the XF and XK can have either, but not the XJ.
Really the chain itself has nor been the problem. It is the guide that had a "soft" aluminium back and the tensioner would wear into the guide. The new guides a a harder steel button on the backside that engages the tensioner and does not allow the tensioner piston to wear a "hole" into it. Early XJs through sometime in 2013 had the narrower chain and bad guides. These were changed during the 2013 run to the wider chain and new guides and tensioners. My guides and tensioners were changed under warranty and the chain had not stretched (my tech said they almost never saw a chain stretch issue).
My old worn into guides. Note the "cups" worn into them New guides have a hard metal button where the tensioner piston engages it New style tensioner had a different angle of "attack" where it engages the guide
I measured 8MM
Now that I am in there I can see I don’t have the updated hardware. The tensioners mounting holes are perpendicular to the piston. Whereas the new one you posted is diagonal to the piston. So I guess I feel good about tearing it down to do this. I also just see webbing on the guide and not a cylindrical shape to accommodate the steel button. So I will be replacing it.
can someone tell me if the marks will ever line up after a start up, I am thinking my timing might be ok but my marks will be on in a million to line up once the car was started? I feel uneasy about it and need to think it through. I have spun the engine more than 20 times and they don’t line up. But also no interference is found. Im trying to think it through.
Yes I have those instructions handy and that's was the extent of my projected repairs. The Zip Tie procedure motivated me to turn a coolant pipe leak repair into this whole mess. I was wishfully hoping to be in the "never needed timing chain work" camp, but taking the SuperCharger off to do coolant part upgrades gave way to fixing the SC coupler and this. I turn the motor and can get the bolts on the VVT sprockets in the orientation of the procedures when the crank key way is at the 6. But chain timing marks don't line up! My big question is do I igone this fact and rely on the fact that the engine was running in this matter, I wonder how many would try to do what I am trying to do, Most will tear it apart and start timing from scratch tools and all. But maybe the ziptie does not mention timing marks because its impossible to replicate unless starting from scratch with all of the alignment tools. I guess I am trying to wrap my head around the outcome I am witnessing. I don't want to start pulling parts till I am comfortable with the thought of it.
I appreciate everyone's though. I do realize XJ owners are likely not doing these themselves, paying or warranty working these. There is likely a higher propensity of gear head shade tree mechanics like me in the XF group, higher sales and more severe depreciation has put them in the hands of such DYI owners.
I just don't want to screw things up. One of these engine cost more than what the car is worth.
XJsss, I am unaware of changes to the timing chain. Only the rails and tensioners. Let me know if you have information suggesting otherwise. 8mm pitch was the only chain referenced in the parts catalog for the XJ that I saw. The 6.xmm chain was only listed for XF and XK, IIRC. Also, I have one of the oldest XJs in the US (first 300) and it has an 8mm chain. Thanks.
Ricardoa1, you might want to PM Dave Tibbs directly to verify. I agree it is strange to fix timing on a car with no timing codes being thrown. The whole point of doing the zip tie method is to minimize the timing chain work/ retiming the engine. I’d hate for you to do more work than necessary.
Ricardoa1, you might want to PM Dave Tibbs directly to verify. I agree it is strange to fix timing on a car with no timing codes being thrown. The whole point of doing the zip tie method is to minimize the timing chain work/ retiming the engine. I’d hate for you to do more work than necessary.
All the best.
Right on, it’s just peculiar to not be able to line marks on. Unless only at first assemble it’s relevant, and once an engine runs the combination is not likely to sync for one in a million chance. At minimum I would have at least expected the lower markets would have lined up. Since they lower sprockets are on the same keyed turn. The cams might have spun faster? And therefore will not line up the second time it spins? Pulling injectors and sealing is not something I’d like to take on unless I absolutely have to.
I had not cranked counterclockwise during pulley disassembly I would have felt more comfortable with the state the chains are. But I’m worried cranking backwards made things jump without noticing.
Nedoerr my understanding is that sometime in 2013 when the new style guides and tensioners were implemented that the chain was also changed slightly wider to 8mm. As I said earlier my tech Matt at the dealership, who is one of the most awarded Jaguar techs in the US, stated he hadn't had to replace any 6mm chains in all the Jaguars and Range Rovers that needed the updated guides and tensioners (he would check the timing to make sure there was no stretch). On an interesting aside was that after the update there was a significant improvement in the stop/start re ignition lurch when taking off. Sort of felt like all the slack was taken out of the chains. .
Ricardoa1,
former jag dealer tech here. Have done hundreds of 5.0/3.0l timing chain jobs. You must have the timing tool set to get everything to properly line up. Otherwise, it will have camshaft/crankshaft correlation codes(best case scenario). Or it could bend valves(worst case scenario). Several options on eBay and Amazon. $50-$150. Or find someone that might have a set that you can borrow.
Also, you need to make sure of which flywheel you have since they changed the crankshaft alignment tool somewhere around 2013.
Currently have a 3.0 s/c torn apart. If parts arrive in time, will post a video of detailed crank/cam timing this weekend.
Timing chain tensioners and guides, stuck on PS pulley and Crank hub.
