Hi,
I am trying to fault find an issue with 2011 3.0D X351 XJ and keep coming across faulty or jammed turbo actuators being a common cause of boost issues which is one of my fault codes (along with MAF and MAP error codes).

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the location of the turbos (and therefore the actuators) and whether they are accessible and if engine component items need to be removed to gain access?

Thank you for your help

 

I assume it is the fixed vane turbo which is on the Right side of the engine (as sitting in the car). It is accessed by getting the car on ramps. Remove the long undertray bodtypanel. There is no need to remove the "ground effect" front undertray.

The front section of the RH exhaust pipe needs to be removed and the universal steerage linkage. You will then be able to clearly see the actuator assembly and follow the bouncing ball in the workshop manual.

At this point I should mention you need to have an electronic workshop manual which you can buy on line and are accessed via Adobe reader or similar.

You'll need a Tork 30 to remove the 4 mounting bolts. Remove the one at the back first.

 

Hello guys.
This is the most appropriate topic I could find so…. Question
I had yesterday another more in depth scan, from a professional, not with sdd….
And he explained me this.
The turbo on the passenger side is closing too fast. And not opening enough….. Even under throttle increasing!!!!
Closing too fast….. From positive pressure dropping suddenly to negative….. Fast and hard.
The electronic response on the actuator seems to be ok…. Voltage in parameters, real time data.
What could be the reason? Air flow? Recirculation? Leaks? And….. Maybe the vacuum valve from in front of the engine, the front so cald egr valve, under the radiator not working right? I had the electronic solenoid changed over there, but only a check by hand with the vacuum valve next to it?
Maybe leaks? From the metal air channel under the radiator, again, the one with the 2 valves one electronic actuator and one vacuum?
Maybe a leak in the cooling of the air?

And….. Strange enough…. I have a very dirty air filter, part that comes from outside, its like.… oil vapors are sucked and filtered. So… maybe some leaks in front and air escapes the tubes and gets inside and re filtered again?

No othererrors….. Dpf empty…. RunniNg normal...only sudden hard drop in pressure and some hickups in pressure while acceleration….. Like its starving for air…… and as soon as you get off the gas…. Pressure drops hard and hard and hard……

And a other question.… I have the device to check for leaks. I did it once without finding something special…… but I did it with car cold, surely not at normal tenperature! How should be done? Cold engine or hot engine?

Hope someone has ideas…. Last post on a other thread didn't got an answer

Thank you in advance

 

Hmm...
The secondary turbo comes in play about 2800-3200rpm depending load. Note: Not sure if its join at all when running without load?
So if you have issues with lover rpm than 2800rpm, it´s not the secondaty turbo causing it.
The vacuum operated valve on botton of the front engine bay are joining both turbo charges together. Small eloctronic valve are "vaist gate". Opens when pedal is lifted and pressure is needed to be released. It might be worth to test if its fully closed? (red hose under coolant resevoir - maybe thre are enough space to remove it from above, add longer pipe and suck/blow for checking if valve leaks?)
Secondary turbo are Fixed vane type, but it have another inbuild electronic controlled "vaist gate" as well. Its in very difficult location for access...

Single airfilter on Euro5 3.0 diesel engines get dirty quite fast. 20t-30t km is good service interval on my opinion. Euro6 3.0 Diesel have two filter setup.
I found it dirty after 20t km as well)

 

Thats pretty much what I was thinking. That and one or more leaks.
Will do proper investigations again!

About the filter. Mine gets black oily dirty in 1-2000 km

 

Hmm....
I think that only way you get oily air for the airfilter is that you get backshock from boost spike on the moment you lift of the gas pedal? This will make your MAF:s dirty as well.
Just a thought: Check how much oil your air charge system have, by removing 90 degree rubber air hoses both ends of the metal housing holding vacuum and electric valves, located low front of the engine. These are well available after removing under engine protection. Maybe worth to clean intercooler from inside as well? (need quite much work to remove it from car)
If you have lot of oil in the air charge system, that will restrick the airflow a lot.

 

maf is clean…… but Will look to see the intercooler of it has oil in it.

 

Can someone help he with some codes?
For the front egr valves?
The electronic valve, I have the code
But it seems to be some other codes for the pipes, and other for the vacuum valve.
Ang some gaskets.
The gaskets I think I found them.
But I need the code for the metallic part, with the vacuum valve, and without the rest of the pipes
Thank you

 

No need. I got them. Thank you.
But I have one other question about the vacuum actuator?
I found that it has a separate code? So its a spare part, how frequently goes bad?
And.….. Like an ideea about what vacuum pressure it operates?
And…… can I check the vacuum system for leaks with smoke machine?
And….. Can I check the radiator egr with the smoke machine?

Because…. Ok, maybe valve bad. And…. Maybe not enough vaccum to operate it properly…… or maybe vacuum leak and if I use the smoke masvhi e to blow some smoke thru the valve operating hose and its a vacuum leak upstream…. Not enough vacuum…. Not enough valve action!

In short…. Smoke machine to check all systems? Vacuum and egr valve and actuator?

 

Part number request

This…. Front radiator egr, splits in 3 parts. Between them…. 2 gaskets
Some codes for those gaskets?
Or where to find them? I just ordered the vacuum valve actuator and I want to split the part to clean and check really good the inside valve, so I think I need the gaskets, for a good full refurb!
Can someone help?
Thank you

Ps: here in Romania, on parts sellers program it doesn't show gasket as a different part

 

Someone? Who knows maybe the gaskets, if they have a part number? Or something?🙂

 

Hi,
Yes, you can use smoke machine for vacuum pipes as well.
The part on your picture (you called front EGR) is not an EGR, but turbo boost divider joining primary and secondary boost together (vacuum operated valve) and also its housing for Shut-Off valve. (electronic) Function of this are to relief exess boost when you lift the gas pedal. (if you listen very carefully you can hear Psssstt sound when lift gas pedal under heavy acceleration above 2800rpm)
No idea about gaskets for this unit.
I have replaced an electric valve on mine. It did not always close tight and caused Under Boost code and MIL light. (small tab with a bar from above and it closed, so i could drive if i did not push it at all). I cleaned complete unit and were bit worry about the axle of vacuum operated valve, because it had bit play. However, it did not seem to leak at all. I added some light crease (ACF50) on the arm lever joint.

 

Yes…. But I want to take things a bit further
Because I suspect the mechanical-vacuum actuated valve is not closing and opening fully!
Because of the vacuum valve age and tear!
I did also the electronic valve, because after the turbo refurb it gave a code in first 2 weeks.… and the old one, strangely, also got stuck, sometimes in closed sometimes in open. So…. I suspect intermediary position on both valves, because of age and tear!
So, because I want to clean the mechanical valve properly, I want to disassemble the 3 part metal piece thatholdes the valves, and even check the mechanical valve to a working right and especially it closes perfectly. No debris, no oil deposit, no…. Nothing.
Because a stuck nor closed nor opened valve, is bad for both turbos and the whole system. And the mechanical system doesn't give errors on the dash.
I suspect also…. That the valves not working properlwhich gives me oily vapors on the air pipes while system and bad turbos, driver side working overtime and passenger side under boosted. And sinking between them is then…… bad.
And here is the gasket problem. I am sure the 3 metal pieces have gaskets between them. But no codes anyware, no schematics no nothing.
I will buy e second hand unit to dissamble and maybe refurb with great care and spare time before I go to the shop for full part replace. And doing it in no rush…. I hope to at least save the gaskets or Find the codes.Furthermore, I read today the whole manual regarding this, and will be searching for relay units for the vacuum actuators, vacuum leaks, and also the other 2 vacuum valve actuators that are on the turbos themselves!
Is one is bad….. The others might be also….

If someone….. Finds, or knows, or something because they dismantled the front egr valve 3 parts metal piece…… please share the experience.

And another question….. If I can't find the nd the gaskets, or they are too damaged….. What can I use to properly seal the parts back? Black silicone like for the rocker cover? Siliconator like for the oil pan? 🙂🙂 or what?

Ps: picture presented in this post are from the other internet….. Not actual pics made by me. But, I will do pics with my work and findings!

 

And another info please. You cleaned it with what substances? And grease it with what exactly?

 

Hi

Ok. The mating surfaces looks just plain surface without grooves for O-ring etc. You can easyly made the gaskets yourself using gasket sheet (around 0.7-1mm thikness) available on most autoparts shop. Mass type, not paper type. You need some patiense and sharp knife. Mind your fingers. Bloodsamples are not nessesary on this task.
An mass type gasket should be good up to 2.5bar on the wideness of the surface area on flange. If you want, you can use some sealant, but note: These alumium parts expand on heat and hard sealants can cause more issues than without sealant.
If you have an play on mechanical valve assemply it can for sure jam and cause backward airflow from primary to secondary turbo causing lot of confusion for the system.

By quick search there are some offering on eBay for second hand ones. Same unit is used on Ranges. Bit hard to search because sellers use different names for the part. Prices vary from cheap to expensive. https://ebay.us/m/WvlNtW
I cleanned the part with brake cleaner and used ACF 50 for linkage. ( https://www.acf-50.eu/ )

 

great answer. Thank you
yes…. Play in the méchanical assembly it can be verry bad. I had a strange simptome, before turbo refurb, one axel blue and one oily alllll over the place. Like one was working without being neceserryand the other one working without necessary help at high rpm because flow for the other was partial when necessary and not 0 like it should be at low revs.
So…. New vacuum actuator ordered, electrical actuator is couple of months old…..
Just to check the actual flap valve, linkeage, any leaks on I'll the air pipes possible and vacuum lines
Use proper grease and clean!
Still….. One other question!
The main air pipes that fee bouth turbos, have safety screw metal gaskets over the joining of the plastic pipe with the turbo head?
Some big ones like this?

Because mine…. Don't have. Its just fitted one in the other. And I think I saw pictures with pipes that have those! And if I don't have them…… possible air leak

 

Air hoses before turbos (underpressure) dont need high tension like pressure side and from my mind the joint to turbos might originally be just push fit and secured only by piping itself? However: Its not a bad idea to use hose clamps, because any leak in piping means error on air volume measuring.

 

Let's talk about this

As seen from the front of the car



As seen from the engine
So. The plastic valve (black) its ,from my studies of the manual, a valve that opens after 3 minutes of iddle, to divert air and gas to the secondary turbo, that actually engages otherwise over 2500-2700 rpm. Because of long idle, in order to get oil to the turbo moving, the valve diverts some gas to make it spin and licricate herself. I had an error on mine, weeks after I redone my turbos last year. You can find new ones, from pierburg(didn't find other brands and original its not existent separate ) for about 80 euro new. I changed it

The grey metal valve in the middle is actually the actuator that works by vacuum. Around 0, 5 bar from my studies on the internet. This actuator opens the valve for full air for the secondary turbo, for higher RPMs. And this time s the part that made me curios about the sistem.
If I understood the service manual correctly, there are 2 more just like this, on each turbo. Identical. The shop that sold me the replace for the vacuum actuator, told me this also.
So… 3 vacuum operated valves, identical. The price I found them si about 180 euro each.
I don't know exactly what materials there made of internally, but if I have one bad I will cut it and post the pictures.
So, if this one vacuum from the front egr actuator, doesn't work from internal failure, or to low vacuum, or stuck metal arm actuator or valve stuck(this is the least possible because internally, the actual valve has a tuff spring, its a sturdy metal piece, with I could see inside rubber gasket around the edge), the secondary turbo starves on boost and probably gives errors.
How I checked the vacuum actuated valve in the picture that is a second one, but in good condition by my opinion. I inspected the metal arm that engages the interior valve, for oil fumes leaks. Check for play in the movement. And third, by the arm that makes the move from vacuum to internal valve, opened it fully, with other hand put finger on the vacuum line feed and block the air(vacuum to n out hole), and release the mechanical arm. It tries to close, hard, but if the vacuum valve is good, it wont completely. What this exactly did. Until I release the vacuum entry hose, it stayed open, just about 10%off full movement, but it didn't close, and hold pressure. Of course, when o released the air hole, it closed instantly!
Still, I want to check how does it operate on vacuum just as the system workers, and I ordered for about 17. Euros, hand operated vacuum pump. Max capacity -1 bar. Stated by producer. Because t it should be enough to operate the valve, no problem. And see if it holds, properly, just as the system operates. The same pump I will use to se il the lines hold and work correct vacuum, as system was designed. More than that, I will check the brand new vacuum actuator, and also the one that will come from my car. And compare.
More than that, beeniNg that there are 2 more vacuum actuators identical, I will do my best to check them, on the car, by using the vacuum lines that o have identified on the manual, and the vacuum hand pump. Its just.… build negative pressure, (the pump has clock for real time pressure) and see if the pressure holds and the actuators are opened( you can see that by eye turbo area, or by auto boroscop / endoscope.
So…. Everything all mechanical ald school...

Now…. Why I am doing this?
Because I suspect, the system in mine, air, egr gas recirculating, its not working properly. I suspect that my front valve is stuck, or vacuum not working properly. The mechanical part. The electrical valve works just fine, because in 3 minutes of iddle I cand hear it kicking it on, with thicker noise on exhaust.
I also have a suspicion that active mounts are not working properly, again, vacuum, but on this part I pray that's not the case. Because engine down costs, rarety of parts, and parts prices.

I will do, as you can see the front ever in pictures, a check on the leacks, with smoke pressure device. For gaskets and even the metal valve inside, even if they think that valve when actuated, opens against the ar flow, and so, it should be shut properly when not in use, unless obstructed movements or something similar!

Hope some find this info interesting, will do follow up with the rest on the story, I still waiting to hear back for parts and pump

 

Exactly method i am looking vacuum leaks. First with an hand pump and then smoke to find the exact point of leak.
Check also solenoids on top front of engine operating as vacuum valves. They are operated by PWM so its bit difficult for manual usage, but i have sometimes changed their location and check if the fault moves from one vacuum circuit to other. (if they are same type/model of solenoids) If the fault moves, the solenoid leaks or stuck.
I havent ever needed to do it with AJDV6, but with 4cyl mondeos/transit/PSA a lot.

 

Great idea and answer, as always
Thank-you