XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?

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  #1  
Old 07-08-2016, 10:18 AM
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Default fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?

I am trying to get at the connector for the super charger coolant pump to see why it isn't running and have removed the front "anti-Theft" cover and the two torx screws but it is still held on the outboard end; does it just pry toward the center to release it from the front bumper cover?

I can see the SC coolant pump but don't see an electrical connector that looks anything like the one shown in the manual and the JEPC doesn't show a connector in the SC cooling system diagram either. Where is that little bugger?
 
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Old 07-08-2016, 10:52 AM
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The IC pump connector is right behind the top of the pump.

In the 2 pics you can see that my upgraded pump is sitting low as it is not fully installed yet. Have to pull hose over the top from charge coolers.

The other pic you can see the blue female connector which is actually detached from its fastner which is about 2 inches above to the right.

So you cannot see it with the pump and top hose in place!
 
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Old 07-08-2016, 10:58 AM
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2 more pics. I removed the bumper to get at the IC pump. Someone on this forum said they replaced the pump without removing bumper. No way could I see how to do that and it only takes 15 minutes to remove the bumper.

The 1st pic is looking down where the auxiliary pump is located below the coolant tank. Obviously both are removed as I am replacing my aux pump at the same time as upgrading the IC pump.

Someone in this forum did say remove the fog lamp to get at the IC pump but I cannot see how that helps one iota. Removing the cover next to the fog lamp gives you some access but very limited indeed.

When I 1st started this it looked very daunting but was not as difficult as I thought! I did have to lower the oil cooler or trans cooler, not sure what one it is, to get the larger diameter upgrade pump up and in. Only two bolts hold that in place.
 
Attached Thumbnails fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070382.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070381.jpg  

Last edited by jackra_1; 07-08-2016 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
2 more pics. I removed the bumper to get at the IC pump. Someone on this forum said they replaced the pump without removing bumper. No way could I see how to do that and it only takes 15 minutes to remove the bumper.

The 1st pic is looking down where the auxiliary pump is located below the coolant tank. Obviously both are removed as I am replacing my aux pump at the same time as upgrading the IC pump.

Someone in this forum did say remove the fog lamp to get at the IC pump but I cannot see how that helps one iota. Removing the cover next to the fog lamp gives you some access but very limited indeed.

When I 1st started this it looked very daunting but was not as difficult as I thought! I did have to lower the oil cooler or trans cooler, not sure what one it is, to get the larger diameter upgrade pump up and in. Only two bolts hold that in place.

Thanks for the photos; Jaguar didn't make this easy. The manual does say to drain the SC cooling system and remove the engine oil cooler to remove the pump, but it doesn't say to remove anything else and it sure doesn't tell you where that connector is.

My #24 fuse in the front box for the "intercooler water pump" checks OK. Somewhere I thought I read that a relay is involved, but don't see one labeled for the intercooler pump. BTW, I don't have a relay in the front box R3 position - should I have one there? My list says R3 is LH windshield heater.

I agree on the fog lamp removal - don't see how it will help unless it lets you reach in and get a mirror up behind the IC pump. I am thinking pull off the bottom cover (which is only a partial one left on my car) and see what I can reach from below and behind. I also need to work on my suspension air pump and horns which might be easier with the bottom cover off anyhow.
 
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:37 PM
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Default More pics

A few more pics. My engine compartment fuse box as well as pics of horns and suspension pump.

The suspension pump is held in place with bolts/nuts that go through the metal bar behind the bumper.
 
Attached Thumbnails fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070385.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070386.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070387.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-p1070388.jpg  
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
A few more pics. My engine compartment fuse box as well as pics of horns and suspension pump.

The suspension pump is held in place with bolts/nuts that go through the metal bar behind the bumper.
Thanks, I see you do have a relay in R3. The rest of the fuses look pretty much the same as mine with a number of "not used" open spots.

A good sized storm just hit here and as the Jag is in a car port with open front I guess I'll wait awhile to get at the front undercover; in the mean time I'll check again for codes, although I didn't have any that related to the SC cooling before.

If/when I get to the IC pump connector I had planned to see if it was getting voltage with the ignition on or if the pump would run on an external 12V supply. (Same thing with the horns which have never worked since I've had the car.) Fortunately I don't see any rodent damage to the wiring that I can see around the pump so far; unfortunately that may mean a pump failure that lead to it overheating and blowing coolant from the pressure cap several times.
 
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:58 PM
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I do wish you luck Phil!

Speaking of rodents when I 1st took my SC off to replace it with a rebuilt one I found yellow wall/attic insulation in the form of a mouse nest back behind the SC.

Sitting in the garage in the Winter for weeks without running it was too enticing for the garage mice!
 
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Old 07-08-2016, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
I do wish you luck Phil! Speaking of rodents when I 1st took my SC off to replace it with a rebuilt one I found yellow wall/attic insulation in the form of a mouse nest back behind the SC. Sitting in the garage in the Winter for weeks without running it was too enticing for the garage mice!
I keep moth ***** in those handy little trays on either side or the SV8s engine, but I still occasionally find half eaten acorns and sunflower seeds on the shock tops if it hasn't been driven for a week or so. This has been a particularly bad year for rodents at our place out in the sticks - I've had to repair injector wires on two Jeep Cherokees and momma's minivan that were eaten in two by rats and I now leave the bonnets half way up on all of them to make it a little less inviting. I even came nose to nose with an eight inch rat (not counting the tail) still hiding in the minivan's hood blanket when I was pulling it down because of the rat damage. You'd think with five cats we wouldn't have such a problem, but only one of them is a good hunter; I suspect the other four are members of Will Rogers party.
 

Last edited by philwarner; 07-08-2016 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 07-09-2016, 01:41 PM
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Between thunderstorms I've managed to get the front undercover off (and also the one above it that didn't seem to be fastened to anything) so I can see the bottom of the IC coolant pump but still can't see the connector. I did determine by feel that it does not run when the ignition is turned on.

I also answered my first question about why the fog light did not want to come out. The tab to the adjustment screw was broken and someone had put the lamp holder in the lens assembly turned 180 degrees and had wire tied the lamp holder to the bumper cover so it couldn't slide to the center. I clipped the wire tie and it slid right out.

Then the storm moved in again so I'll have to wait for things to dry out to slide under again and look for that darn connector.
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:14 PM
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You can get to it from the other side of the radiator below the coolant reservoir and below the aux pump.

There is a wire harness down there that supplies the connector for the coolant reservoir as well as a plastic tube covered wire that goes to the IC pump connector. When I felt that tube it feels "loose" over the wires it covers.

The connector itself, on my car, is held on a "slide in" holder fixed to the side of the radiator. The connector has two parallel "rails" with slightly curved outside edges that slide over a wedge that fits under the curved rail edges.

I have just installed my upgraded pump and reconnected that connector holder all by feel. I could only do it from the rear of the radiator.

I had already taken out the aux pump and coolant reservoir. Just installed a new aux pump now as well.
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:02 PM
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A few things to make the upgraded S/C pump easier

First the pigtails are different.
You can find Merc pigtails on ebay. I got one from a wrecker where it was cut of a wrecked harness.The other way is to solder wires onto the pump then use your own pulg/socket.
Id recommend you leave the OEM plug in place and T into harness rather than cutoff the OEM plug

The next thing is the new pump has a bigger diameter.
Just delete the rubber support between the OEM pump and bracket.

With the rubber deleted the bolt for the bracket is a bit short.
You can get it it in but it a PITA. I recommend getting a slightly longer bolt as it makes it a hole lot easier

Last Id also taking the bumper off. Its whole lot easier to do the job with it off

You may also want to look into the Fan Mod as well which makes a big difference in heat soak and you have the fan wires accessible when you replace the pump

Cheers
34by151
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
You can get to it from the other side of the radiator below the coolant reservoir and below the aux pump.

There is a wire harness down there that supplies the connector for the coolant reservoir as well as a plastic tube covered wire that goes to the IC pump connector. When I felt that tube it feels "loose" over the wires it covers.

The connector itself, on my car, is held on a "slide in" holder fixed to the side of the radiator. The connector has two parallel "rails" with slightly curved outside edges that slide over a wedge that fits under the curved rail edges.

I have just installed my upgraded pump and reconnected that connector holder all by feel. I could only do it from the rear of the radiator.

I had already taken out the aux pump and coolant reservoir. Just installed a new aux pump now as well.
Would draining enough coolant and removing the top radiator hose help to reach that connector? Man there is a bunch of stuff down there.

The manual (pg 2380) says to remove the IC pump you must remove the oil cooler, and under oil cooler (pg 1297) the first step after draining the coolant is to remove the left hand engine mount. I've been there and don't want to go there again if I can help it.

I am hoping the problem is electrical and not the pump itself, but I need to get 12V fed to the pump to know for sure which it is.
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:37 PM
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>>>"Would draining enough coolant and removing the top radiator hose help to reach that connector? Man there is a bunch of stuff down there. ">>>>

You would be able to reach down and get to it doing the above. However you might find the lead once disconnected is too short to "work" on.

>>>>"The manual (pg 2380) says to remove the IC pump you must remove the oil cooler, and under oil cooler (pg 1297) the first step after draining the coolant is to remove the left hand engine mount. I've been there and don't want to go there again if I can help it.">>>>>>

You would have to remove the oil cooler if you wanted to take the IC pump straight down. I simply moved the oil cooler out about 1/2", two bolts to undo only, and was able to pull it out the front above the aluminum oil cooler feed pipe. But to do that I removed the bumper and that really only takes about 20 minutes.

BTW some instructions on this forum about removing a 2005XJR front bumper were incorrect and the 1st time I did it I wasted a lot of time looking for a bolt on the inside of the fender well supposedly holding the side of the bumper. No such bolt on my car.

Simply take out the front grill, the lower splash shield which you have already done. Two top clip overs ether side and pull the sides out carefully but forcefully. All wiring is thru a harness that attaches on the RHS only.

You then have a clear view of the pump and the connector. Not to mention the suspension pump and horns.
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:35 PM
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Default Bumper pics

Bumper pics and side of body where it clips in.

1st pic shows the single wiring harness connector.
 
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 34by151
A few things to make the upgraded S/C pump easier

First the pigtails are different.
You can find Merc pigtails on ebay. I got one from a wrecker where it was cut of a wrecked harness.The other way is to solder wires onto the pump then use your own pulg/socket.
Id recommend you leave the OEM plug in place and T into harness rather than cutoff the OEM plug

The next thing is the new pump has a bigger diameter.
Just delete the rubber support between the OEM pump and bracket.

With the rubber deleted the bolt for the bracket is a bit short.
You can get it it in but it a PITA. I recommend getting a slightly longer bolt as it makes it a hole lot easier

Last Id also taking the bumper off. Its whole lot easier to do the job with it off

You may also want to look into the Fan Mod as well which makes a big difference in heat soak and you have the fan wires accessible when you replace the pump

Cheers
34by151
A connector came with the upgraded pump I purchased spliced it in.

Also used a longer bolt for the clamp.

Because I have an upgraded SC I added an extra IC radiator with twin fans.
 
Attached Thumbnails fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-2016-07-09-10.44.46.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-2016-07-09-16.17.34.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-2016-04-23-15.18.05.jpg  
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1
A connector came with the upgraded pump I purchased spliced it in. Also used a longer bolt for the clamp. Because I have an upgraded SC I added an extra IC radiator with twin fans.
Thanks for all the pics. Guess I'll attack the front bumper cover tomorrow if weather permits. Just to be sure I understand, your upgraded pump in the photo is the S/C Inter Cooler pump not the Auxilixry pump? Was it new? And what model did it come from? It looks much more robust than the OEM pump.

I am increasing amazed at the complexity of this car - I believe I saw four different radiators from underneath so I assume one is an AC condenser and the other three are Main, SC, and oil cooler radiators. It looks like I have a few extra steps to disconnect the front parking sensors and the headlight washers but I didn't understand why the manual says to remove the side marker lamps first - looks like they should come out with the bumper cover.
 

Last edited by philwarner; 07-09-2016 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:47 PM
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Actually I just realized the pic of the pumps is apples to oranges my bad!

It is of the upgraded pump for the SC but the old aux pump is next to it.

The original SC pump is larger than the original aux pump.

I replaced the aux pump with the upgraded pump because I thought it was the SC pump a couple of months ago.

Also my new aux pump is larger than my old aux pump but not as large as the upgraded SC pump.

The upgraded SC pump was new for $100 on Ebay and included the pig tail connector I forget what car it was for. Funnily enough the aux pump connector was an exact match for it.

With the work involved in replacing these pumps I would not install used. I would offer you my used pumps but I dont think its worth the risk.
 

Last edited by jackra_1; 07-09-2016 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by philwarner
Thanks for all the pics. Guess I'll attack the front bumper cover tomorrow if weather permits. Just to be sure I understand, your upgraded pump in the photo is the S/C Inter Cooler pump not the Auxilixry pump? Was it new? And what model did it come from? It looks much more robust than the OEM pump.

I am increasing amazed at the complexity of this car - I believe I saw four different radiators from underneath so I assume one is an AC condenser and the other three are Main, SC, and oil cooler radiators. It looks like I have a few extra steps to disconnect the front parking sensors and the headlight washers but I didn't understand why the manual says to remove the side marker lamps first - looks like they should come out with the bumper cover.
The bumper removal instructions in this forum that I went by mentioned removing the side marker lamps and 1st time round I wasted a lot of time doing that.
You absolutely do not need to.

You do need to have some support under the bumper as you remove it unless you have help and I do not know how the headlite washers on your car connect so thats another reason to have some support.
 
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Old 07-11-2016, 12:23 PM
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Default update-SC pump runs on external 12V but not with ignition on

Originally Posted by jackra_1
You can get to it from the other side of the radiator below the coolant reservoir and below the aux pump. There is a wire harness down there that supplies the connector for the coolant reservoir as well as a plastic tube covered wire that goes to the IC pump connector. When I felt that tube it feels "loose" over the wires it covers.
The connector itself, on my car, is held on a "slide in" holder fixed to the side of the radiator. The connector has two parallel "rails" with slightly curved outside edges that slide over a wedge that fits under the curved rail edges. I have just installed my upgraded pump and reconnected that connector holder all by feel. I could only do it from the rear of the radiator. I had already taken out the aux pump and coolant reservoir. Just installed a new aux pump now as well.
Originally Posted by jackra_1
The bumper removal instructions in this forum that I went by mentioned removing the side marker lamps and 1st time round I wasted a lot of time doing that. You absolutely do not need to.
You do need to have some support under the bumper as you remove it unless you have help and I do not know how the headlite washers on your car connect so thats another reason to have some support.
Yesterday I took lots of stuff off the front of the jag to get to the IC pump. (I'll use IC pump from now on since I found it is called that in the electrical guide - It doesn't help that the X350 manual calls it simply "water pump" making it hard to find in a word search). When removing the bumper cover the manual does tell you to disconnect the hose to the headlight washers, and there is even a quick connect fitting for the purpose, but it fails to tell you to have something to cap it off or to catch the gallon of Rain-X washer fluid that will drain out of the washer reservoir onto the horns and the ground. OK, grill and bumper cover off and I also removed the headlight pods and the plastic cross brace that held them and still did not see the IC pump connector. I also swapped another relay into the empty R3 relay position to see if it might have something to do with the IC pump and the relay felt like it clicked when the ignition was turned on but the pump still did not run.


Today I removed the small bolt holding the top of the IC pump so I could push it to one side and follow the pigtail from the top of the pump down between the pump and the radiator and finally found a connector attached to a radiator bracket and completely hidden under the foam glued to the side of the radiator. I pulled out the foam so I could see the connector and used a big screwdriver to pry up on the connector and eventually popped a metal clip with the connector attached off of the radiator bracket. I disconnected it and put the probes of my DC voltmeter on the female connector from the car wiring while my wife turned on the ignition and there was no voltage at the connector. I used a portable 12V supply and small alligator clips to connect 12V across the pump’s male pigtale pins and the pump runs. Yea! But now I have to find out why turning on the ignition does not supply 12V to the IC Pump’s connector; fuse #24 checked OK. Is it supposed to run continuously with the ignition on? Is there a relay involved anywhere? (see answer below)

I also learned why my horns did not work (full of water) and why the side marker lights did not work (both were disconnected and one side had bare wires and a broken lamp in the not connected lamp holder). Many of the bolts on the cross piece were loose so I bet it had been disassembled before; the good news is that being aluminum and plastic nothing was rusted in place and all came apart easily.


So....remaining questions: Should the IC pump run continuously with ignition on? Are there any relays in its circuit? (see answer below) Is R3 relay really "not used" in our cars or should it have a relay in it? And while I am in there, when should the Auxiliary pump run? Any time the climate system is on? Or is it controlled by demand for heat in the cabin? Might as well check it now, although that pump is still pretty hard to reach.

I will replace the air suspension compressor piston ring with Andy's kit while I have good access to it, and I hope my car scrapping bro-in-law can find me some horns - the horn connector did have 12V with the horn pushed but the horns are toast.

Pics below from my backup camera - not a car backup camera, but my small camera because I've somehow misplaced my good Kodak.

Update: the 2006 MY XJ Electrical Guide says there is an intercooler relay in the front power distribution box, R12B, (on the PC board) that feeds Fuse 24, and my fuse 24 does not get 12V with the ignition on. Hence, apparently, no 12V to the pump. Not sure where to go from here, but I should have checked voltage at fuse 24 before dismantling the front end. At least I know the pump is OK and given the electrical guide's nomenclature I went back and changed this post to refer to it as the IC pump.

 
Attached Thumbnails fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0189.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0209.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0221.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0224.jpg   fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0226.jpg  

fog lamp removal and SC coolant pump connector?-100_0230.jpg  

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Old 07-11-2016, 12:33 PM
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My understanding is that the SC pump runs continuously with the ignition on even before starting the engine.

I do not know if there is a relay in the circuit.

I found the aux pump a lot easier to get at than the SC pump.
 
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