Went out after work to start my '04 XJR, turned the key, and got a kind of click - click - click from the engine. I'm thinking, great, the battery died. Tried to jump it with a co-workers diesel Jetta, and it still goes click-click-click. All the lights and everything else seems to be fine. So I ask another co-worker with a Tahoe (big battery), and does the same thing. Didn't want to work on it in the cold, (high of 8 degrees F, low of -5 that morning), so got a ride home while I could. Asked a friend who had a spare Jag battery and a load tester if I could borrow them for the day. Next day, after a low of -2 F, hooked up the load tester to my existing battery. It was on the edge of green (12v), and when loaded, dropped to 10.5v. I hooked the new battery up, and tried again. Same result - click-click-click. Connected the 2 batteries together, and still no luck.

I called the dealer, and the tech said the starters rarely go out, and it was probably a relay. I swapped the relays around, and it didn't seem to make a difference. I didn't feel like messing with it in the cold anymore. Now the dilemma - I can get it towed 28 miles home or 32 miles to the dealer. Being that I've been having problems with my heat (see thread) I decided to flatbed it to the dealer. Next day, I call in the afternoon, and the Service Rep said they've determined the starter is okay and there's no problem with the relay. They had a similar situation 2 years ago with another XJR, but they want to confirm their suspicions. I get a follow up call about 2 hours later, saying that water has gotten into the spark plug wells, and frozen the engine. There's no water in the engine, nothing in the oil, and the antifreeze is up to spec. They said that water enters near the cowl, drips on to the supercharger throttle body boot, and because of the way the clamp and boot were configured, gets funneled on to the engine. He said that Jaguar designed the engine so that if there are fluids on it, they would flow to these spark plug wells, so that it doesn't get into the engine. The cold temperatures were enough to make the engine freeze.

Their fix is to let the car thaw, then remove the spark plugs so they can evac the water out of the wells, and rotate the thottle body boot so that it doesn't provide a funnel action for future water to get in.

I'm a little skeptical...

 

Whoosh..... Now Thats a good one. I would tell them to just let it thaw first, replace with a new battery and try starting it. If it starts and runs ok, run it till it gets hot and the water will be evaporated naturally. Then change the throttle body boot as they explain myself thanking them for the advise and saving a bunch of money in the meantime.
But thats just me.....

 

It's new to me also, if true.

 

The dealer explanation is amazing! Your symptoms, which I have experienced many times on many different cars, was a result of one of the following:

- Weak battery
- Starter relay defective
- Starter solenoid defective
- Starter or starter solenoid internal short
- Resistance high due to improper grounding (loose ground wire, rust formation in the starter's ground circuit etc)

Let us know what the final outcome is.

 

- I connected a new battery, and then even put 2 in parallel, and it didn't start.
- The service tech said the relay is typically the problem, but they checked it and it was okay.
- He said they checked the starter and it was okay.
- I was thinking ground as well, but I'm assuming they looked at that too.

I'm struggling with how that much water could get down into the spark plug wells, with all the plastic covers and such that are on the engine. It doesn't make sense to me that there wouldn't be enough torque to turn the engine over even if the valve train was frozen. But the problem still remains as to why didn't the engine turn over in the frozen weather. I need a realistic answer/solution so I can feel comfortable driving the car in cold weather.

 

Water/ice sitting on the outside of the engine would have no effect on it turning over. The explanation makes no sense.

 

I fully agree. No reason for ice formed outside to prohibit the engine turning over. Water cannot get inside, otherwise you have a big big problem!

 

I would ask them to read the codes (if you can trust them).

A few months ago my Jag would not start for the first time in 5 years but the starter was

spinning so freely that it sounded like it was disengaged from the engine.

I started to remove starter but needed a curved spanner to remove one bolt so had to

leave it.

Next day tried it again and it started and I have not had a problem since.

Some time later I did a scan with my Mongoose and to my surprise found a DTC relating to to some

electronics which monitors the fuel pump voltage?

So reading the codes might give a clue.

 

Sounds like a load of hokum to me. I would bet that the starter has either a weak solenoid or a sticky starter drive. Often a physical shock (like a gentle whack with a hammer or wrench - seriously) will result in it working again, at least for a while till it sticks again.

 

I think if you run the car with the plug holes full of water it may misfire for quite sometime & damage the cats.

 

Just another thought: Check the ground wires thoroughly. Loose grounds = unhappy Jags.

 

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I will be talking with the service tech at the dealer first thing Monday morning. I'm actually hoping that the car still won't start after sitting inside all weekend, so they can "correct themselves" on the whole water in the spark plug well explanation.

After talking to a couple of other trusted sources, and the responses here, I think it will end up being a bad ground somewhere. I'd go thru them myself, but I don't really have that option being that the car is at the dealership. I'll provide an update after I hear back from the tech.

 

My issue with "no start" was the connection of the positive cable to the starter itself. Disassemble, clean and no issue since. But, you did say they tested the starter, did that include the connection?

Tom,

KISS (Keep it simple stupid)

 

Personally, I can't reconcile how water on top of the engine would keep the engine from turning over. Frozen...and assuming shorted out...coil packs would prevent ignition, but the starter would still turn. Not to say there is not frozen water in the plug wells, I just think you have something else causing the clicks without turning over.

 

Apparently there was some mis-communication to the service rep (or he was high on something). I talked directly to the mechanic over the phone, and his thought was that water leaked INTO the throttle body, and was sucked into the engine, causing a hydrolocked condition. He had tried to start the car this morning after it was sitting inside all weekend, and it still wouldn't start. I asked him to check all the grounds/earths before he started removing spark plugs and to call me back. The service rep called back, and said all the grounds were good, and that the mechanic tried a breaker-bar on the engine to see if it would turn, and it would not. I explained again that I have a 30 min drive into work, and that at 8 degrees F, there was obviously no water around for the engine to ingest, so I didn't understand how the engine could be hydrolocked. It ran fine that morning. He replied that the mechanic had seen this condition in 4 other Jags over his 3 years at that dealership, and needed to pull the plugs to inspect the cylinders. I asked again if there was any indication of water in the oil, and they could not see any evidence.

It's been about 3 hours since I talked with the rep, and I'm quite nervous as to what the next call will bring...

 

Hate the waiting. This is a weird one.

 

How could water get into the TB??

 

So I got the call... The service rep said the mechanic found water in the third cylinder back on both sides. He confirmed it was water only, and not coolant. The mechanic is stumped as to how it got in there and the only explanation he can come up with is condensation from the supercharger. Does this sound possible? I realize the cold temps and warm engine could make condensation, but I wouldn't think at 8 degrees F there would be much moisture in the air. Does anyone have any other ideas?

 

Sounds like the engine is ok if it never ran when it was hydrauliced.

 

Are they saying the engine is knackered due to hydraulic locking in the cylinders ? If it was water, not coolant, there is obviously no head gasket failure.

Engines can get hydraulic locking like this if an owner drives through a deep puddle or floods too fast, I have seen a Rover 75 with a rod through the side of the block due to this. Have you been through any deep puddles or floods recently ? On your car there is a supercharger, so not a direct path from inlet pipe to inlet manifold.

If they have seen this in four cars over three years, it is a quite rare issue, and the first time I have seen it mentioned on this forum, and I have posted here since 2010.