Hi guys and gals,

I am considering the possibility of keeping my cat forever, and not selling it (we're celebrating our 14th anniversary this September, and we've been through a lot together ), so I am contemplating on going all the way. The KB 2.6H has a ProM 92 MAF telling the engine what to do with the larger injectors, but I feel there is still power left on the table.

Do any of you fine ladies and gentlemen know somebody that can gen a standalone engine management system to talk to the 6hp26?

I spoke to Tom Lenthall, and he used to do this, but doesn't anymore, so unless I can convince him to make an exception, and take my car in, I'm out of luck. He mentioned that one needs to talk to the CAN & SCP network... I feel it is waay out of my league.

What if one could put a BMW 6hp26 in, and get that to talk to the standalone ECU? The BMW 6hp26 has been cracked, unlike the Jag (or am I wrong? can we upgrade our trans too now?)

My final goal would be to have a fast shifting transmission, which can carry the shift points to around 7000rpm, because the hp is still climbing when it shifts @ 6000.

If Tom did it, it means it's possible! Care to share your thoughts?

 

Hi Matt, congratulations on your upcoming 14th!

I have asked around a bit about this as well. I was actually having a similar discussion with the guys at the performance shop/dyno last week. They were telling me that if i wanted to go with much more power, the 6HP26 was not going to hold up reliably. I would have to swap it for something with a higher torque rating or at least strengthen it somehow. They told me the Ford 6R80 is basically the twin brother of the 6HP26, but much stronger; 590 lb-ft (800 n-m) vs 443 lb-ft (600 n-m).

I am sure you could find a stand alone system that could communicate with that, as it is a very popular transmission and people build cars that run those here in US. Now, I am not sure that it will just bolt right up in place of the 6HP26 though, so it will take some creativity and $$$$.

Check this out:

"The 6R80 transmission will bolt directly to all Modular and Coyote Ford engines and can be adapted to virtually any vehicle combination relatively easily, with a variety of parts available to simplify the transmission swap. It is an excellent choice for a performance upgrade or when swapping from a manual to automatic transmission.

This transmission has been largely avoided or ignored in the past due to a stand alone control system not being available. Now, the Quick 6 makes it possible for you to realize all of the benefits of the 6R80 in your vehicle.

The US-produced Ford 6R80 transmission is based on the robust ZF 6HP26 design, which has been used by automakers world-wide for over 14 years. Enhancements were added by Ford to further improve the transmission, including the addition of a ratchet-style low one-way clutch, and removal of the internal TCU for the 2011 model year, easily enabling stand-alone control. The 6R80 has already been field-proven to accept up to 1000HP in stock form, with only ECU tuning."

https://www.usshift.com/6r80.shtml

Hope this helps! Keep us updated if you find anything.

 

Hi Jazzy,

You breathed new hope in my quest... at least it seems I'm not alone
When you said you were talking about this as well did you refer to the trans? the engine management? both? Did you also talk to usshift.com? If not, I'll want to drop them an email.
Should we solve the transmission, would there be someone to turn to for an EMS capable of working with our 4.2, even if not in conjunction with the gearbox?
Luckily, since when I was at university 14 years ago, finances have also improved, so I'm just looking for someone that can take the project on, and I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'm in Transylvania, and most options would be in the States - it would be awesome if we could gather some interest over there, and perhaps have a vehicle for testing. Mechanically I think it shouldn't be that complex. Perhaps the simmilarity of the two transmissions means no need for an adapter plate, and that would mean only bolting a 6r80 converter to the 4.2's flexplate. But even if not, an adapter plate shouldn't be that hard to make.

Worst problem in my opinion would be the car's CAN... how would one get around that? I would hate to have all of the errors on Heaven and Earth lighting up my dash all the time.... though I would consider it as a last resort, if the engine and trans work flawlessly.

In conclusion:
1. can usshift mate a 6r80 to the engine as is, and make it work?
2. can we get somebody to fit a standalone engine management system to the 4.2 S/C?
3. What are the consequences on the car's network & sensors like ABS, ASC, etc., and can one do anything about that?

 

The guys at the dyno shop were telling me that they think I would need a stand alone in order to run the 6r80, and they said they could do it no problem if it did (we did not talk about this for a long time). It did catch my interest and get me thinking...

I am not sure if they know how complex the jag system is, but they did have some crazy Frankenstein builds in the shop. For example, they were almost done building an old Datsun 240z, with a Supra 2jz motor, with a corvette trans, and mustang suspension and completely custom ECU. They say anything is possible for the right $$$$.

To answer your questions:
1. can usshift mate a 6r80 to the engine as is, and make it work?
-I dont know. After doing some research, it looks like the 2 are very, very similar so i think that they can mate them, perhaps with some minor adaptation.


2. can we get somebody to fit a standalone engine management system to the 4.2 S/C?
-yes I am positive. The guys at Proven Power here in Tampa install standalone systems to Porsche, Lambo, Viper... pretty much anything. They are good, and I am sure there are other shops out there even better that could do it.


3. What are the consequences on the car's network & sensors like ABS, ASC, etc., and can one do anything about that?
-I am sure that would be a mess. But with the standalone, i would get a whole different ECU to run everything and integrate what you want/need and ignore the rest. You will probably loose a lot of the features the car comes with from factory. Depends on how far you want to go with the build.

I love the idea of this, but do not know how practical it would be for me. If i blow another engine in the jag, I will either switch to the dark side and get a BMW M5, or keep the Jag and LS swap it. I know some of the x308 guys have done that, but i haven't seen an LS x350 yet. Guys at the shop said they would be glad to do that.

I think other members would potentially be interested, if this were an easy plug and play or required minor modification. I would be. If its too much capital required... you might be one of a kind.

I know there are other members here with far more knowledge than I have that might be able to offer some insight.

 

So far I've tried Arden, badcat upgrades, and SRD tuning in Europe & UK. Badcat didn't reply. Arden asked if there is someone closer that can do a custom tune. Replied, asked specifically if they can custom tune my car if I bring it to them, no reply. SRD said they did a tune on a standalone which was not installed by them (Badcat's car), I replied I'm willing to make it worth their while, and asked wether I can send my car, then no reply.

I am willing to pay what it takes to do this, I thought the saying "with enough money anything can be done" holds true, seems not for this Jag.
Is there really no one in the whole wide world that can tune this car, irrespective of $?

I am willing to send my car anywhere, as long as it doesn't leave the EU economic area (for the time being, UK is ok too), found out it would be an impossibility with our stupid customs, otherwise the US would have also been a choice

 

Viezu might do the PCM but I know no-one who'd do that and the TCM.

 

I agree. Viezu did my tune. Had to remove and send the ECU to them for an "off the shelf" tune so it wasn't great for me. But if you could send them your car and they can dyno tune it, that would be great. Might be worth contacting them. I would ask what they can do with your current ECU and what they could do with a stand alone system.

 

I will write them, thanks! The owner of Badcat upgrades wrote me today, and such is my luck, he just retired. He offered advice in contacting SRD, which I already did

 

Where are you located ? I can do custom ECU programming.
What year and model of car ?

 

Apologies for the delay, from memory, and this was back a couple of years, Tom offered a kit with a Link Thunder ECU, as below, and photo, and from memory again Tom had said he was then using the Ford GT500 90mm TB with this, so as to remove that restriction. Perhaps even if Tom is now on longer offering this (unfortunately) then another Link dealer could assist? Not sure if he is still active but "Davey" from the UK forum was the TS in his X350 so if you can track him down he might be able to help.
https://dealers.linkecu.com/G4PlusThunder?quantity=1



Not sure if any of this is helpful. But I hope so, and congratulations on keeping the car...

 

AlexJag,

I have the dreaded 2003-2005 Denso 32bit ECU. It would be awesome if you could do something that makes my ECU work with the bigger supercharger & MAF.
I'm in Europe, and as a last resort I can send my car anywhere, as long as it doesn't leave the EU.

Simon,
Will try the leads you gave me, thank you.

 

I have been doing 32bit denso ECU for a while , but 2006 is the earliest model I have attempted to Do. If you have more identification # for the ECU email truesownow@gmail.com
I should just find one locally to see what can be done

 

I think the later cars have CPU SH7058/9 but the earlier (like mine) have twin SH7055.

Example Jaguar PCM labels include
MB079700 (has 2 x SH7055)
MB279700-9xxx (has SH7058)
P5.0SC (has SH7059)

 

Have you looked into a HKS F Con Vpro? It is a Japanese standalone ECU that can run as a piggyback to the stock Denso ECU. (Denso is a Japanese company) You just need to find an authorized tuner that knows how to use it. It will run like stock and control just about anything. https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-HKS-F-...AAAOSwh-df0y4D

I have been looking into doing serious engine out build to my Jaguar XFR and looking into these things as well. I am on a Denso ECU I have a fcon right now. I have the ZF6HP28 in my car and all my research shows that 6R80 parts will fit into the Jag trans. Some of the parts even show ZF6HP26/8 on them https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZF6HP26-6R8....c100005.m1851

Here is a billet intermediate shaft http://www.nizpro.com.au/products/zf...y-input-shaft/

We will have to see if the 6R80 billet planetary gear will fit. MSR racing builds the 6R80 to run 7's and they are in the same state as me. https://www.msr-nogmparts.com/builds

Lund does tunes on the 6R80 and has a handheld tuner that re-maps them. Maybe call them and see what kind of connection it is and see if your car has the same port? https://www.lundracing.com/
https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en...Tune-Revisions


This video shows how similar the 6R80 is from the ZF6HP26/8 starts at 3:28

 

Thanks, Benjamin, for all your ideas!

First of all, I tried the Exedy clutches, I can confirm they fit. I have a thread about it here on the forums from a few years ago. Only thing is that the basket didn't hold all of the frictions & steels in the kit. However, the weakest link is the input & intermediate shaft.

I talked to Simon @ nizpro, they can't do software for the Jag 6hp, not even when I offered to send the car. You're in luck, the 6hp28 is tougher & much faster than my 6hp26. Can you immagine the 1-2 shift in 800ms? Why do you need upgrading in your trans, btw? you're like 250ms shifts & 7-800Nm torque, so you can do whatever you want with the engine, the trans can take it.

I cannot find any tuner that can get a standalone to talk to the car's CAN network, I am currently investigating the possibility of the Motec M130-170 piggybacking the Denso, so the engine can talk to the CAN, but the fueling, timing & throtte can be controlled.

There was a company doing this till recently in the UK, alas the guy who got the standalone to work left. And with the Brits leaving us on Dec. 31, chances of me ever finding anything within the EU go from shallow to dry.

I am now almost sure that we can swap parts with our 'mmerican cousin 6r80, due to this, which I found in Australia. It seems it confirms previous rumors.
https://roadblastertorqueconverters....rque-converter

I tried contacting them, but alas, no reply.

Does anybody know the exact dimensions of the 6r80, compared to the ZF? How difficult would a swap be, mechanically speaking? US Shift has a standalone controler for the later 6r80, which has the electronics on the outside. Thing is, the 6hp26 has all the electronics inside, and the only way to reprogram shifts is software, no controllers. And I can't find anybody who does this, no matter the price.

I am still searching for a tuner who can get my engine and trans to properly work at elevated power levels, I am prepared to pay top dollar, but as of now, no takers.

But I am not giving up, as a last resort I will try to find time and take the online courses & seminars from hpacademy, and purchase a dyno, and do this myself. I only hope I am smart enough to do that. However, family and work keep me so busy, I have no time left for anything else, so that's why I would gladly pay somebody to do this - but again, nobody seems to be willing to take my project.

 

sounds like your best bet is to swap a 6HP28 or go straight with a built 6R80. That video shows how to make an adapter plate in laymans terms.

You can't find a racing fabrication shop to make a custom harness for your standalone? Thats is really all it would take to get rid of the canbus.

A body shop can mold the trans tunnel to fit the trans. Or a big hammer.

There is a company that works with the valvebody of the 6HP26/8 that might be able to do the software. https://revmaxconverters.com/product...y-mechatronic/ they have had success with the ZF. They make billet converters for racing as well.

Let me know how you got the motec to work with the Denso. Im worried my F-Con V-pro is too low resolution to control direct injection engines. Have been toying with building a custom harness to delete the canbus and still use the factory sensors to use a standalone.

The amount of power i can make with a R2650 Eaton exceeds 2x what the trans is rated for. Still in the same boat as you with the 6HP28. Even trans built, my diff may not be robust enough to live either. Got a Ford 9in IRS ready to drop in with level 5 axles from DSS.

 

I'm fitting a spitronics mercury 2 to run my SC merc gearbox, I have the code for the gearbox too.

 

I am fitting an 6r80 to a small block ford bellhousing bolt pattern. The question to be asking is if the valvebody of a 6r80 can be bolted onto the ZF transmission and if so, you can likely use the standalone TCU. The next question is will the jaguar PCM like that

 

FYI there's a stand alone module for the 6R80 called Quick 6. There's a guy on YouTube that used it to install a 6R80 to a fox body mustang and drag raced it. He has a video of him programming the shift points.

 

I I should be able to reflash all of the above except sh7055 Will be required to be bench-flashed by taking apart out of the car, for the other ECUs I can easily do through OBD2