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I'm in process of a rebuild of the tranny on my 98 VDP with 145K miles which I've owned for 12 years and most of its miles. The fault was the A drum lip failed. Outside of metal shavings embedded in the A clutch frictions and lots in the pan, all else was found to be OK. New A drum, frictions, seal / gasket kit arrived today so re-aasembly starts this PM.
On reading as the job has progressed, I've seen reference to Torque Converter issues leading to driveline vibration. One major frustration over the past several years has been a driveline vibration that is present 95+% of the time. It usually starts between 50 and 55 mph (80-90 kmh) and often smooths out at 70+ mph. It is also inconsistent in that some days it isn't as apparent as others, even when driving on the same road & at times seems to come on as early as 30-35 mph. One of the charts I've found in my travels shows that full torque converter lock up should occur at 57mph - the same speed range my vibration normally becomes apparent. This has me wondering if the torque converter could be the vibration cause due to an issue with the lock up clutch. However, I'm not sure if the TC was in trouble that there wouldn't also be other symptoms - & up until the point the tranny failed, I'ver never had any shifting / transmission problems. I have done partial drains and re-fills (with Esso fluid) since the vibration started and (until this failure) never found anything amiss with the fluid or with metal bits in the pan to indicate something was on its way out.
Over the years I've done all the usual things to try to fix the vibration - multiple balancing, multiple new tires, front wheel bearings, new front suspension bushings / control links and tie rod ends, new u-joint on one of the half shafts etc. with no real effect. When I took the tranny out, I looked at the Jurids & prop shaft, but visually they seem to be fine & there are no leaks in the rear seals or motion in any of the wheels to indicate some other component is failing.
I'd appreciate input/thoughts on whether the torque converter is a possible clutch and what other indications I could look for to confirm it could be the culprit.
With the transmission out the torque converter replacement is a very easy decision to make. You obviously think there is a problem there and it will never be easier to resolve.
My 2002 model X308 3.2 displays the same shimmy and vibration between 50 and 60mph. It is about to go and have a new torque converter fitted. The only worry I have is that Ive heard so many horror stories of gearboxes going bang after having an oil change and of cousre it is having this too.....
If I was going to have the torque converter replaced, I'd want to make sure that I had eliminated the wheels/tires as a source of vibration.
Having them balanced several times, and replacing tires, does not eliminate them as the cause, as the wheels could be distorted. Been there, done that. Quite common on a 10 year old car.
The only thing that would eliminate them as the cause, would be a printout from a Hunter Roadforce balancer, showing less than 1mm of runout, preferably much lower. This is a machine that applies road force to the tire via a roller, and measures the runout.
There is a process called ride matching, which attempts to match the tire to the wheel, cancelling out runout. It can work very well, but is very dependent on operator skill & patience. Again, you are looking for 0.5mm or less after ride matching.
Think about it. With an ordinary balancer, you could balance a square wheel, just fine.
Finally, there is an option called Straightrak or something, that measures side to side pull and will tell you how to position the wheels on the car to get the straightest steering. I even selected the arrangement that gave a couple of pounds to the left, to counteract the road crown. Cool.
just curious - did the tranny make any noises when cold? I've got the same vibration (its minor) at the same speeds and for the past three weeks until the car warms up I have a noise from what sounds like the tranny area as the car shifts into gear. BUT the shifts are smooth and there hasnt been any problems so I'm hesitant to think the tranny is shot
Since I rebuilt mine, all has been good. I personally think the hype over issues with changing fluid has no basis in fact providing the new fluid is chemically compatible & the tranny wasn't totally gunked up before. NB after my rebuild, as I had a clean tranny & lines, I used Castrol Multi vehicle ATF rather than the Esso spec & no issues over @ 20,000 Km. As a non-synthetic, it will need changing over time, but that is not a big thing as a partial change is easy.
PS- The TC I sourced was a rebuild & it seemed to cure most of the vibration, although I still get a minor vibration on certain road surfaces that I think is related to tires and wear.
It cured vibration issues in my car twice, but I had to take it back three times (both times I have had this done over the past three years I have had this done!) until they finally got a good technician to do the job properly.
It is a great machine, but only as good as the guy using it.
BMW, Jag & Range Rover all used the 5HP24 in NA. Audi also used it, but theirs was a 4wd variant, so has a lot of differences that make it unsuitable.
While the base transmission is the same, over the years and makes, there were many variants used. While many of the changes are minor, it is important to know the variant that is used as there were many part changes over the years, primarily to do with valve bodies & clutches.
NB that torque converters were also slightly different & only a Jag TC will mate to the engine & I'm not sure if it is possible to use a TC from a different year with a certain variant.
I've tried to attach a summary page from the ZF catalogue below that gives the basic info, but don't know if it will show up OK. The full manual shows all p/n's for all variants so you can tell which are interchangeable between makes. In my rebuild (of an 015 variant) I recall all the parts I had to touch during the rebuild were common to BMW & that is where I sourced them as there was a much larger selection & better prices (BMW calls the tranny an A5S 440Z)
While the base transmission is the same, over the years and makes, there were many variants used. While many of the changes are minor, it is important to know the variant that is used as there were many part changes over the years, primarily to do with valve bodies & clutches.
NB that torque converters were also slightly different & only a Jag TC will mate to the engine & I'm not sure if it is possible to use a TC from a different year with a certain variant.
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Thanks for the great info! But now you've got me worried that this might not be the easy fix i was hoping for. I bought a used transmission, the number on it ends with AB. I haven't pulled mine yet, but my car is a 2000 year model and your chart stops at 1999, so probably the last one listed. Any chance the valve body from mine will work with this transmission? And if i buy an a-drum from eBay, will it fit either?
I don't know why the catalogue shows years as it does. It was printed in 2003, so should be current to then at least. Perhaps they neglected to enter a dash after the 1999 variant (the 027) to indicate the same variant continued into the out years??
If the unit you bought is an NJB4400AB, that implies it is from a 98 & so is the same as my 015 variant. If you look at the side of the main housing you will see the ZF tag that will show this.
From memory, the A drum is the same over all variants used - although there may be some differences in the internal pistons etc. The att doc should show this.
You should also see that the repair kits cover a range of variants, so there isn't much guesswork involved - that was why I was able to rebuild using the kits sourced from BMW suppliers (BTW I got my A drum & kits from folks v close to you in Tx).
I think the valve body is mostly common to all variants, but there was an upgrade in later variants which I think was to correct problems that contributed to/caused tranny fails (it seems to be there was a suspicion that the A drum fails were partly due to issues with valve body pistons &/or pressure regulators, so it may be that the later valve body is interchangeable with the earlier one). I don't think there are any differences that would cause one not to fit.
One thing I do remember is that the machine screws for the VB are different lengths, but the manual is silent on that. Make sure you note which length goes where when taking things apart as it will save guesswork later........
So, I've taken apart the used transmission that i bought, and verified the a-drum was shot. Upon a pm from "motorcarman", his experience has been that the valve body has not ever blown a newer reinforced a-drum.
So my next question:
Is there a link or a thread here that shows step by step instructions for the removal of the transmission? I've got the book on how to rebuild one, but not to get one out...
I have just bought a second '82 XJ6 which has a vibration, I have found myself looking at the torque converter for the issue too
you guys talking about doing wheel bearings, joints, tyres and wheels etc, this would all be irrelevant if you had the same issue as I do, which is a vibration when the engine is revved at a standstill - is this not the case with your issue?
I figure it has to be on one end of the crank, which means the torque converter or the harmonic balancer
08-02-2012, 03:29 PM
5HP24 Transmission rebuild - Torque Converter & Vibration question
