Hi there,

right now I'm in the process of replacing the tensioners, guides etc of my MY2000 XJR. I actually thought this might be a smart idea after running almost 150k mls on the same chains etc.

After having managed to get off the crank bolt and the crank pulley with almost no serious issues, I thought myself pretty safe with just the timing cover and some smaller things (crank sensor etc) left to remove. But that's where my issues began.
I rounded at least five of the many timing cover bolt heads. Some of them I could release with a vise, others I had to cut off (so that I'll have to drill the rest as the cover is off). There's still one left to cut but I ran out of cutting discs for my Dremel.
So today I decided to move on with removing the crank sensor in order to lock the crank. I managed to get the torx bolt out but the sensor didn't move a bit. In fact it finally broke off when trying to apply a bit more force. Now the rest of the sensor is stuck in the block. I tried to move it inwards with a chisel, I carefully tried to move it back from the inside, I heated the whole area with a hot air gun etc etc. But this crappy thing does not move a bit.
There's almost no chance to drill it as there's not enough space to position a drill straight to the sensor (or the rest of it).

When reading through the threads there had been pretty nobody ever experiencing stripped timing cover bolts and/or broken and stuck crank sensor. I'm quite well experience with turning the spanners but I never ever ran into such insane amount of trouble and issues before. Even not when I made a whole suspension overhaul with having both subframes off the car. Right now I'm pretty demotivated and it's the very first time working on that car that I'm highly desperated and frustrated.

Does anybody have an idea how to get this crank sensor out of the block as the space down there is pretty limited?

Thanks a lot! Cheers, Alexander

 

I'll have a look at the area and see if there's a simple solution in the morning regarding the CPS.

There shouldn't be frozen bolts on the timing cover as they're such a light torque. I wonder if someone has been in before and over torqued. Needless to say running the engine until warm helps, then take it apart. Heat is usually my first call, on something small like these bolts a small butane torch is compact and hot enough to get the job done. Hopefully there's enough of the bolt to remove with the vice grips once the cover is off - after you heat it.

 

Alexander, Like you, and Sean B, and I'm sure many others, I'm a little confused why the timing cover bolts should snap off, and then the complication with the CPS is just frustration icing on the cake! I can well understand how miffed you are!

I'm especially puzzled why the crank positioning sensor (CPS) should be so much trouble, usually my complaint is the restricted access to the bolt holding it in place, but once that is out the unit usually simply drops out, so I am confused why you had to resort to chisels and heat, I don't know how the sensor can get so stuck.

I don't have immediate answers, but do have condolences. Keep us posted as to your progress.

 

Hi guys,

thank you very much for standing by me. I highly appreciate.
Well, another sunny day and yet another chance to get some work done. It took me at least two hours to chisel, hammer, heat and bend the CPS out of its mounting hole. The reason why it got stuck is obviously some galvanic corrosion between the housing of the sensor and the block
First I kind of scraped out all of the internals of the sensor (magnet, coils etc) so that eventually just the thin metal housing was left. I tried to wedge it out from the timing disc's side but the housing still didn't move a bit. So I began to hammer and chisel around the edges of the housing and kind of "folded" the housing so that it finally dropped out the other side.
Possibly I scratched the timing disc a few times. No serious damage, no bents etc but a few scratches - I don't think I have to worry about that.

Question 1: How can I prevent this kind of corrosion when putting the new sensor in? Grease? Since there's no noteworthy water ingress to that area the grease should not be washed away. I do understand that I should use sth which is magnetically inactive so that I do not disturb the sensor's signal.

Later today I'll tackle the last timing cover bolt. Got some new cutting discs but I'm quite sure that this is no easy job either. I marked its position on the picture and as you'll notice there are the AC-, brake and transmission lines and some other stuff in the way so that it's pretty impossible to cut the bolt's head straigtht. Not to mention getting any sort of drill maneuvered in that area.

Question 2: Since the timing cover bolts (JFB10607B) is NLA from Jaguar, can anybody confirm that JFB10607B025 is the successor part? Or if JFB10607E (used for the metal secondary tensioners) might be used as well, since it's a grade 8.8 and M6x35mm bolt too?!

I attached some pictures of my progress so far. Meanwhile I also removed the main water outlet in order to access all the timing cover bolts.

Cheers, Alexander


Crank holding tool (long enough to rest against the vehicle's frame) and puller attached to the pulley

Cam covers off

Snapped crank position sensor

all internals removed, just the housing still baked to the block

 

wow, that's been in since new and salted winters might just have played a part in the frustration. If you tidy up the area with a wire brush and use a zinc/aluminium based paint - 'stupple' it on (kind of jabbing the paint into the pitted alloy with the brushes). This offers protection along with your suggested grease, just a light finger wipe should be fine for many years.

Can you 'slot' the head of the bolt for a flat head bit and try turning out before de-heading it? It looks like age/moisture has combined to make these bolts a struggle to remove, again plenty of localized heat + penetrating fluid on/around the head of the bolt and it should give - fingers crossed.

Thought on the timing ring? it'll be OK.

how about going stainless on the timing cover bolts - if you can locate these in similar specs plus washers,( I doubt you'll find flanged bolts) that would be an upgrade.

 

Stainless steel flanged bolts are available here: https://www.belmetric.com/m6x10-flan...l2uoba933v4d80 but they are fully threaded. Otherwise, this website is an excellent source for the Jag's "small wrench" flanged bolts (https://www.belmetric.com/flange-bol...l2uoba933v4d80) and other fasteners.

 

Appreciated, I think I'll place an order!

 

Hi to all,

thank you very much for the info. Meanwhile I got the confirmation of the Jaguar dealership, that JFB10607B025 is the successor part for the timing cover bolt. So I ordered them right away with some other parts as well. Quite handy to have a Jag dealership right around the corner.

In the meantime I tackled the last bolt head and cutted it. Doing so enabled me to get the timing cover off easily. When I inspected the two "studs" it turned out that the mechanic who's been there before has glued in at least some of the bolts...for no obvious reason. I didn't tackle the removal of the two remaining "studs" yet, since I was busy taking the chains and tensioners off. When I was there I checked the valve clearences too and was lucky enough to find just four of them being way out of spec. So today I spent quite a lot of time removing the shims out of a set of spare tappets which had been sitting on my shelf for the last couple of years. A hot air gun and a neodym magnet helped a lot to get these shims out, as the oil film between the tappet and the shim has dried up and "glued" both together. And another few hours passed like seconds when I measured the shims

I'll keep you updated with some more pics next time. But for now I'm very happy that I obviously made the right decision to tackle this job. Even though my car had been updated in the past with the metal primaries and guides, it turned out that on either side one of the guides had been broken into two parts despite their metal core. The other two guides (where the primary tensioners are pushing against) were fine, except of that there had been quite a few cracks allover the plastic.

So my engine was on borrowed time with that mess.

Cheers and best regards....and happy easter ;-)

Alexander

 

Hi
Sorry to wake up this thread.
I have an x308 with a snapped-off CPS, it's stuck solid in the hole.
May I ask how you managed to access it? Did you drop the subframe?
On mine, the steering rack and subframe are in the way and I have no access to even drill or pry it out.
I have tried getting to the shiny end of the CPS through the hole next to it (shown in your photos) once you remove the rubber cap. No joy.
So just wondering how you did it so I may look at the same solution.
Or if anybody else can reply?

At the moment I am looking to get it towed to a garage with a lift/ramp to drop the subframe to drill it out. Major pain for such an easy sensor change.
Thanks in advance.
James

 

If you have to take extreme measures to extract it, pull the transmission out instead of the subframe. You’ll be getting directly on the other side of the crankshaft position sensor and it’s also an opportune time to do the rear main oil seal and the cap seal 2” above it that has a 17mm Allen bolt holding it in.

However, if you have some time and patience, use lots of P’Blaster (or another penetrant), a socket that’s the same width as the old crank sensor, a small hammer and/or small pry bar and just slowly chip away between spraying, gently hammering on the socket like as if you’re pushing the crk snsr into the transmission side and using a small pry bar on the other side of the crk snsr to pry it towards the engine side. I know these aren’t precise methods to getting it out, but you have to start somewhere. When I get to work tomorrow, I can get you some width measurements of the crk snsr and the hole that it sits in.

 

Hi
Thanks for the tips.
The transmission option is a good one, however, the subframe has to come down because I need welding done and the V mounts replacing. So 2 birds one stone etc.
I was hoping to get the CPS out before though with any luck, at least that would allow me to start it up and drive onto a trailer and into a workshop.

If this can still be done by knocking the sensor back and into the transmission then great, but I hope there is enough room for it to drop out of that hole.
Thanks
James

 

I didn’t have a spare crk snsr on hand but I verified that a 3/8” drive deep well Snap-On 13mm socket was 18.1mm wide fit in the hole with a pretty snug fit. I would look into that.

 

The "face" of the sensor should be very close to the flex plate, probably less than a millimetre, so knocking it inwards is not really possible.

 

Thanks, that is what I thought too. I will have to try and pry it back, but the end cap is likely to get bent/folded. Maybe the drill out is best when the subframe is dropped.

 

Looking at the picture above, it seems quite possible to insert a screwdriver (or similar wedge) through the big opening and in-between the flex plate and the sensor housing (cap) and push/lever it out. You may have to bend the screwdriver somewhat and make a "special tool".

 

I was thinking along those lines too.
I Will let you know how I get on.
Thanks

 

OK I have an update. The main part of the CPS is out. The plastic and all the coil wire etc. The metal can it sits in is still stuck in the block. Again no access really without dropping the subframe.
It's been soaked in WD40, but the metal must have corroded against the block.
Any thoughts?
All a bit of a nightmare for a 5 min sensor change.......

 

WD40 is NOT a penetrating oil. It is a Water Displacement product. (Water Displacement 40)
You would have better luck with a proper penetrating oil product.

WD40 is good at some things but there are better products for penetrating corrosion.

 

Good point well made.
I will try something else, but it is really jammed in there and almost impossible to access.

 

So, your in the position of post #4 and the last pic. What you have is two different metals that have annealed to each other via corrosion (road salts and such). Read the first paragraph in that post.
As you see in that pic where he has chiseled away at it...you will have to do likewise. I don't know if you have the tools to accomplish this, but that parts been in there the better part of 20 yrs probably and its not coming out in 20 minutes.