Hi Gents,

I have a 2000 X-308 with the AJ 27 4.0 engine in it. I have owned the car since new, and now it has 41,000 miles on it. As time marches on, life keeps throwing curve ***** at me (each new one more violent than the last), up to the point that, at this point in time in my life, I can only dedicate a little bit of time to the car about once a month, if I'm lucky. Which brings me to the point of this posting: Dry Starts aka timing chain rattle at start-up.

I also own a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with the 4.0-liter SOHC V6 engine that also suffers from the same dry start problem if it is not started at least once a week. Sometime ago, a friend gave me some advice on how to solve the problem: remove the fuel injector fuse (so that the engine does not fire up), crank over the engine continuously for about 15 seconds or so at a time, let the starter rest for a few seconds and repeat this "cycle" a few times until the oil pump builds up oil pressure, replace the fuel injector fuse, and you are good to go. It is amazing how well this works on my truck! In my truck's case, I remove the fuse, turn the engine over for about 15 seconds, let the starter rest for a few seconds, and repeat...... At about 8 or 9 seconds into the second cranking "cycle", the needle in the oil pressure gauge jumps to the normal position. I replace the fuse and fire up the engine....... It is a beautiful thing how this engine starts; no different than any other engine would start after a quick stop at the Mini Mart!

So.....use the same procedure on my XJ8, and problem solved, Right? Not so simple! In the case of my XJ8, I remove the fuse, and I crank the engine over continuously for about 15 seconds per "cycle", letting the starter rest for a few seconds in between "cycles". After 8 or 9 of these cranking "cycles" (for a total of 2 minutes and 15 seconds of almost continuous cranking time), the oil pressure indicator light won't even budge. By this point, the battery starts getting a little sluggish due to all this cranking; at which point I usually panic, and decide to fire up the engine before the battery goes completely dead. Oh Lord!...... I crinch every time for the first few seconds of each one of these Dry Starts! The engine fires up, the timing chains rattle and slap for around 3 seconds (about the same amount of time it takes the oil pressure indicator light to turn off during the initial start after an oil and filter change), then the engine builds up oil pressure, the oil pressure indicator light turns off, the engine quiets down and runs smooth and silent as it always has. What really gets to me is the fact that when I do this on the Sport Trac, after 30 seconds of cranking the engine, it has built up oil pressure; whereas in the XJ8 after 2 and 1/4 minutes, the engine has not built-up oil pressure. What is it? Is the oil pump on the Sport Trac that fast, or is it the pump on the Jag that slow? Where has my thought process gone wrong? What is it that I'm not doing or that I'm doing wrong? Does anyone have any advice for me to help me out?

Thank You.

PS. I had the secondary chain tensioners replaced with the new aluminum ones about 14 years ago. Chains, guides, and primary tensioners are the original ones.

 

Welcome to the forums BuckJto,

You identical posts in X308 and XK8/XKR forum were both automatically locked for moderation. I've deleted the one in XK8/XKR forum and approved this one.

Graham

 

But did you replace your primary tensioners and guides? Those are probably your next issue to resolve, you shouldn't have any chain rattle with these motors.

One thing you'll be best to do is to drain your oil, remove your pan and check to see what's in the pan. Then get your finger into the oil pickup and clean it out, be sure to run your finger around it good.
This process will tell you 2 things, ...first whether you have pieces parts blocking your oil pickup...second whether those parts are possibly from your primary tensioners and guides.

I also recommend you check your primaries from above with a bore scope.

 

Hi Graham,

I am sorry.....I apologize if I broke any rules. I was just trying to reach a bigger audience. I thought XK guys don't roam the XJ forum and vice versa.As a matter of fact, at the end of this page, there is a section titled "Related Thread" and it contains postings from 2016 from the XK8/XKR forum. It talks about dry engine starts after major engine work. This is what I was trying to accomplish.

Jose

 

Hi Highhorse,

Thanks for taking the time to think this through with me!

Okay, I can accept that....as a matter of fact, I hope this is true in my case. So, lets not call it chain rattle or chain slap, because honestly, I am not really sure of where it is coming from. Let's call it a rumble noise. Could it be from the V V T hubs that lost their oil pressure? Could it be noise from dry cam followers, valve tappets, what have you?

Kudos to you for a well thought out and methodical approach to a factual diagnosis, but, I honestly don't think that I have a problem with oil pressure at any engine speed.Like I said, I own the car since new, and since it has always been infrequently used, I made the point since the very beginning to do an oil and filter change every 2,500 miles, regardless. I have always used a MANN oil filter with Pennzoil full synthetic oil. I'm willing to bet almost anything that I don't have any kind of sludge deposits in this engine.
I don't think that I have any kind of issue with the oil pump either (including the remote possibility of debris lodged in the pressure relief valve, preventing the valve from fully closing and sealing), because I have never had any issues with the oil pressure light. I mean, I know of other cars having fluctuations in the oil pressure for whatever reason, and it always shows in the oil pressure light.....either it comes on when in idle, or it randomly comes on while driving. As far as pieces of other parts in the oil pan.......I can always do an oil pressure test....I only have to get the testing kit. Finally, I removed the oil filler cap with the engine at idle, and the one cam I was able to see had a good, fat oil stream flowing on it at idle!
I guess what I would really like to know is how this oil pump in the Jag is different to the oil pump in the Ford. Is it a high pressure or a high volume pump? Is it designed to deliver its nominal oil flow at high or at low engine rpm? Why does it take soooo long (at cranking engine speed) to build up pressure?

Do you mind if I sent you a personal message?

 

Well, my concern was not sludge, but parts from your guides and/or tensioners. The guides and tensioners are known to deteriorate and thus when gravity does its job, its new home is the pan. You can also check the guides from above with a bore scope as I said previous, which is easily done by just removing a cam cover. Be sure your bore scope has a light function. Bore scopes can be gotten for smart phones as an attachment and are relatively inexpensive.

As for the type of oil pump flow, that would be for someone else with better knowledge on site. Motorcarman (a fellow Texan of yours), Xalty, Addicted2boost and a few others that have greater knowledge than I'll possess.

I'm not sure if you can PM me yet, you have to have a certain amount of posts (I think 7?) before that's allowed, but you can try. If you haven't done it, to get your post total up, plus it is a site requirement, introduce yourself here (I'm surprised Graham didn't say anything)... https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/n...-intro-must-5/ ...it only takes a minute or 2.

Here is a link to the X308 workshop manual, its too large to post on site, but this is a dropbox link to it for download... https://www.dropbox.com/s/vujkjrxklu...anual.pdf?dl=0

Another great resource is Gus's site... JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource ......there is a lot of info there and he built it for us as a resource. You can write him as well, and if his info saves you come money, don't forget to toss him a bone in his paypal.

 

One answer to your problem might be something like this.
https://www.melling.com/product/engine-prelube/
I think this one is not designed for everyday use, but there are others which are.
A more experienced member might provide a link.

I sympathise with your concerns, as the XK motors in my previous Jags took about 15 seconds to stop rattling after startup. Mainly due to the restricted oil feed to the camshafts.

 

Hi Highhorse,

Thanks so much for all this wealth of info........Now I can properly learn about this cars! BTW.... I was doing some research in this 'jaguarforums' site, and I found this: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/...iy-repair-maintenance-links-facts-data-29800/. Is there something like this for the X308 cars?

Thank you.

 

You mean at the top of this forum in the Sticky section?

 

DUH............Jeeeez!!!!!!!!!...........Never mind. Thank you so much. Sometimes, I can't believe myself!