Hi Rui

since I did not have any answer to my mails I eventually picked up the phone and called the manufacturer today. Let say that this type of work is not strategic for him at this time since he is overloaded. He is working for aerospace etc... He told he he is booked until end of this year but that I could try again in January.

 

Thank you so much for making all the effort! I really do appreciate it
I dont mind waiting till January but i'll see if i can get people in japan to work from your CAD image!

 

Hi Rui.

note that I did the CAD drawing myself and that the measurements are aproximate. To make sure my gears were cut correctly, I sent part of the mechanism to the manufacturer, in particular parts 18 and 20, and ask him to base his design on the existing parts, not on my CAD drawing.

Cheers,

Bruno

 

I think you might be right about it being a none powerfold mirror... it feels totally different to try to move it compared to the working one... as in it feels like nothing is stopping you folding it in and it locks into place once open.

Quiet possibly someone in the past swapped it for a none powered frame for some reason. (smashed off whilst parked on the road or something).

 

Hi Chris,

probably non power fold mirror indeed. There is no locking feature on the powerfold mirrors when they reach their final folded or un-folded position. They just stay in place due to the strength of the friction.







Another point to consider is the electrochromatic feature (auto dimming at night). I might be wrong but I would think that if you have the powerfold feature on you exteriror mirrors you would also have the auto-dimming feature on the outside mirrors (at least the wiring). Said differently, the exteriror mirror connector has either:

• 9 wires (no powerfold, no exteriror auto-diming)
• 12 wires (9 wires + contacts 1 and 7 for powerfold, and contact 12 = "mirror tint" for auto-diming)

Note: the autodimming feature on the exterior mirrors has only one additional specific contact (contact 12) because the ground is common with the heated function. The voltage level is low (varying between 0 and about 1V) on the autodimming contact 12. You can see it varying with a voltmeter when your central mirror is dimming. The central mirror is controlling also the exterior mirrors diming. The central mirror has 2 light sensing elements, one facing the front of the car (aperture on the rear of the central mirror), and one facing the rear of the car (aperture at the bottom front of the central mirror). During daylight you can test your diming function on your central mirror (and therefore test the exterior mirrors diming function as well) by permanently obscuring on your central mirror the aperture sensing the front of the car (to simulate night) and at the same time, alternatively obscuring or not the rear aperture on central mirror(to simulate or not the lights of a following car).

When I acquired my car, one of the exterior mirror glass was non auto-diming: 2 wires (ground, heated) instead of 3 (ground, heated, auto-diming) on the back of the mirror glass. The price of the mirror glass is very different if it is only heated or if it is heated + auto-diming so people are thinking twice when a replacement is needed. There is also this price consideration when replacing a heated windshield. Mine has been replaced by a non-heated windshield at some point in time. I did restore the diming function on the 2 exterior mirrors but the heated windshield restoration will wait until it breaks again. If windshiled is insured, the insurance might not cover the premium for heated windshield but i have read that someone was able to negociate with insurance and pay only the extra for the heated.

 

Does anyone know if the mechanism and gear is common to the XK8, mine twitch only rather than folding.

 

I found 9 wire power fold mirrors for our 2001 XJ8 on Ebay.
The Ebay listing says It has the power, heated, memory, and power fold features.
Is that correct - 9 wire? should it be 12 wire?

Is it possible to use our non-folding mirror to work as fully functioning power fold mirrors by replacing all the wiring and other internal parts from the 9 wire power fold mirrors?

Jim Lombardi

 

Hi Racediagnostics,

The mirror frames have different part numbers:
XK8: HJJ3403AA
XJ8: HNJ3403AA
however I would not be surprised that the power fold mechanism is common and only the frame has different shape.

Member Rui is showing the same gear as mine on post #9. If this is coming from his XK8 (shown in his signature) that confirms that these are the same power-fold mechanisms.

 

Hi Jim,

That sounds suspicious to me. I would think it is a mistake in one or the other way.
If you look at the 12-pin connector assignment there is really no way you can save wires unless you would use more modern technologies (digital signals, mutiplexing, stepper motors).

 

Thanks, I will strip one down over the next couple of months and report back.

 

Hi, I just remember that member "rui" is showing the same gear as mine on post #9 and this is likely coming out of the XK8 he is showing in his signature. So XJ8 and XK8 likely have same power fold mechanisms (xk8 exploded view shown below).

By the way, the new power-fold mirror frame seams significantly cheaper for XK8 than for XJ8. So if someone would like to go for a new XJ8 frame only to get a new power fold mechanism he could think buying the XK8 and swap the frames (to be confirmed, still a very expensive fix though).

 

bballarin

Looks like I will purchasing a UK driver side folding (fold-back) mirror for our 2001 xj8 passenger side door.
We probably can use our existing RH Mirror case bezel ( HNA3052AA and RH Mirror backcover (HNA3056AA).

This would save repainting the UK fold back mirror.
The mirror case bezel has the same part number for the non-folding and folding mirror.

The mirror backcover only mentions RH - therefore it must be the same for both non-folding & folding.

Is it possible also to use our exiting mirror glass in the UK folding mirror?

Our 2001 XJ8 does not have the 2 folding mirror relays in the rear left hand heelboard.
What is the part number for those relays (is it the same as part number as the other 2 relays in there - LNA6705AB)?

I also noticed that the motor (HNA3066AB) is the same part number for both folding & non-folding mirrors.

Looks like I will not be able to use the parts from second UK Driver side folding mirror for our USA driver side mirror (harness for folding mirrors part numbers are - RH is HNA3410AA and LH is HNA3411AA).

Is there anything more I should know about making the switch from non-folding to folding mirror on our passenger side door?

Jim Lombardi

 

Hi Jimlombardi,

If this is an upgrade (meaning if you have never seen power fold functional on this car) I would check that I have a 12 wire harness arriving to the mirrors (need to remove the door card). If yes, after populating the 10A fuse and the 4 micro relays (see below), I would check that I can see + or -12V between contacts 1 and 7 for a few seconds after actuating the power fold function. Only then i would go and buy power fold mirrors.

All 4 relays under the rear left hand heelboard are LNA6705AB.

You need as well a 10A fuse in position 4 under right hand heelboard.

Your mirror glass can be reused even if they are 2 contacts only (heated, non dimming). If you have have 2-contacts-only mirror glass, the purple wire coming from harness contact 12 will be unused. If you would like the exterior mirror dimming function, and have the 2-contact-only mirror glass, then you need to discard it and buy the more expensive 3-contacts glass (assuming the diming control is functional).

I think you can use a left harness on right side and vice versa assuming you would permute some wires. I know for sure contact 1 and 7 must be permuted. I guess the rationale is that the folding motors must rev in opposite direction to have both mirrors folding. From the wire color code stand point that is the only permutation I have noticed on the 12 connector side. I am not sure if some other permutations would be required due to opposite mirror glass position movement and memory feedback. Heating, diming and common wires should logically have same position on both sides.

I hope everything I say is right. I have only worked on my own car that had all this features from factory, so I knew it has been working and it was just a mater of restoring.

 

Thank you for your response.
Our 2001 XJ8 has existing heated / memory door mirrors.

We have 2 of these relays in the Rear LH Heelboard (mirror memory & mirror heating).
I will have to buy 2 more of these relays for the folding mirror use.

Also we have an existing 10 amp fuse in Rear RH Heelboard fuse 4 (mirror heating).

I will add future posts after I have a chance to remove the door panel (card) to inspect the harness for the mirror.

Jim Lombardi

 

Just for the sake of exactness, it seems the 2 existing relays under the left hand heelboard are for different purpose than for the mirrors. Documentation says: Door lock and air conditioning isolate.



Fuse 4 on rigth hand side heelboard is indded for Mirror heating and fold-back:


I am also adding the fold back electrical diagram:

 

Quote:

I am just realizing that you could make this test before buying 2 new micro relays by temporarily using 2 microrelays coming, from instance, from the trunck fuse box (seems there are 2 of them there for fuel trap lock/unlock, double check these are same reference)

 

Hi,

On my XJ8, side mirrors don't work well... When i try to fold them out or in they don't stop when they reache the end. Finaly after a while it stops and i can adjust manually thje position. Might be my microswitches, what do you guys think ?

About 470€ for a new one, i am kind of depressed when i think i might have to buy a full set...

Paul-H

 

Hi Paul Henri,

If I was not on a .com site I assume I could speak French with you. It seems indeed like the microswitch is not trigerred when mirror reaches open position. The motor stop is therefore driven by the body processor timeout rather than by the microswitch inversion as it should. More than an electrical root cause, this could be due to a ceised friction (second friction in my original post). Maybe all it needs is a bit of silicon grease assuming the gears are still ok for a while. There is quite some work to reach to the friction. I do not believe dropping oil from the outside of the mechanism without dismantling it is doing anything good. Let me know if you need help.

Cheers,

Bruno

 

Hi Guys, What a brilliant article. If only I was that clever ?? On my RHD 1999 XKR convertible ex UK the RH folding mirror works perfectly however the LH mirror folds in all the way but when folding out turns 180 degrees before it stops. Can some -one kindly point me in the direction of the problem.
It has been suggested to disconnect the battery for more than 10 minutes and then reset the radio and windows and operate the mirrors through two cycles in the hope their memory has been reset. Reading the above suggests dismantling the motor. I do have a couple of spare mirrors from a same year XJR that I can practice on. Any real factual pointers much appreciated .
Cheers
John

 

Hi John,

the good things are:
- since the mirror folds both directions, everything outside the mirror itself is OK: fuse, relays, Body processor module, wiring.
- since the mirror moves, and is able to go even beyond its unfold position tells that the plastic gears are in good shape (at least not critically worn yet)

the bad thing is that the issue is very likely internal to the mirror pivot so nothing will fix it unless you open the pivot and cure the problem (burnt diodes, ceased frictions,....)

The body processor module does not get any feedback about the mirror folding position, nor is able to store or recall any position regarding the fold/unfold cycle. So disconnecting battery, or try any type of "reset" is unlikely to cure the problem. The body processor module is pretty "stupid" when it comes to controlling the fold/unfold function: it only sends a plus or minus 12V signal on the only pair of wires that controls the folding operation, for a duration longer than needed to perform the fold/unfold operation, and expect the mirror internal microswitch to cut the power in anticipation when reaching the correct position. If the mirror continues beyond its position toward the front of the car it is likely because the mirror integrated microswitch does not cut the power for some reason: the friction does not slide as it should when reaching position, or diode(s) are in short circuit (2 of them).

The advice to run the fold/unfold cycle twice is only valid if the mirror is mechanically out-of-sync with the body processor module due to someone manually folding or unfolding the mirror. This is again pointing to the fact that the body processor module has no feedback of any kind about the position of the mirrors.