XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

Valve cover noise NOT chains?

 
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:05 PM
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Default Valve cover noise NOT chains?

My car has been problem free for a couple of years and according to the engine number it came from the factory with metal timing gear. Today, after sitting for a week or so, it made some intermittent squeaking noises from the serpentine belt area. I've replaced all the bearings in the accessory belt area recently so the noise surprised me. It sounded like it could be the water pump, maybe; it's 9 years old. I had a backup water pump and gasket on the shelf so I figured I would go ahead and replace it; easy job on an X308. With the new water pump (and new coolant) it made the exact same noise.

I put the stethoscope on the cam covers again (I did it before and heard nothing abnormal). The passenger side bank sounded like the noise was coming from the inside!! I panicked. I pulled the cover off immediately expecting a scary scene. Nothing, All metal timing gear, no apparent damage, both chains snug. I snaked a camera down but could only see lower chain area partially. I didn't seen anything worrisome. The guides look brand new.

Any suggestions on what I'm experiencing?




 
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:39 PM
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Are you sure its not the belt itself?
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 07:08 PM
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Hey Highhorse, thanks for responding,

I put everything back together and it runs great with great fuel trims (which means I put the cam cover back on correctly), but it's still making that squalling noise. I figured it out though. I couldn't figure out why it was so loud inside the timing chain cover but the reason is because the supercharger idler pulley is mounted there. The SKF bearing in that pulley has less than 3,000 miles on it but it's definitely where the noise was coming from. I didn't check it because it's new!!
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:50 PM
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Squeaking noise is usually made by a belt. Perhaps it is caused by some extra load on the alternator. As your car was sitting for some time, the battery will have gone down and the alternator has now extra load charging the battery. You can verify whether it is the accessory belt slipping at the alternator pulley if you, while you have the squeak, switch the headlights on and off. If you hear a change in the squeak (louder with the headlights on), it is the slippage at the alternator pulley.
 
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:11 PM
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Thanks,

It's a metal squalling sound and I'm still a little perplexed by what I've found.

I took the supercharger belt off and when I hand turned the idler pulley it makes an awful racket. That is definitely where the sound is coming from. I removed the pulley and pressed out the bearing. It turns smooth by hand and feels like a brand new bearing. I pressed it back in and re-installed it. It turned smooth and quiet by hand so I put the belt back on and started the car. For about 5 to 7 seconds it was silent; then the squalling came back. I took the belt off again and sure enough when I turn the idler pulley by hand it's rough and noisy. Is it possible the mounting bolt is somehow the problem? Is it possible it has to heat up a little before it squalls?

I already ordered another bearing; they're very inexpensive (SKF shipped for less than $8). The local parts store said they could order me one for $125 and yes, that was JUST the bearing. Anyway.....

The only "defect" I can find is in the little round metal plate that goes between the bolt head and the pulley. The opening the bolt goes through is flared in on one side making the opening a little oblong. I would love to get a new one but unless someone on here has an extra then I don't see that happening.
 
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:06 AM
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Sounds like a scorned bearing, instead of rolling for an instant, it may have slid and scorned it so when it started rolling again, it is now damaged. The revolutions those bearings turn is immense. I'd bet if you took the race apart, you may find a blueish colored one.
 
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:16 AM
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You are probably right, Highhorse. I'll find out when the new bearing arrives in a few days. Below is a picture of the part I was talking about. In the picture from the side you can see where a lip has protruded on the inside of the opening. I feel like it's possible that the noise I hear is that piece rubbing against the bolt and/or the pulley itself. Not sure but if anyone knows where I can get a new one I'd be grateful.

 
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:47 AM
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Jeff,
I have a spare supercharged engine that overheated. If you have no luck finding a new one I can take the one off this engine.
 
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:14 AM
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Just a thought, could it be your super charger cooling water pump? I had a very similar experience and was getting worried, until I just happened to notice that I got the noise as I just put the ignition on, without starting the engine. i.e. the super charger cooling water pump is electric and will be powered.

If anything it is a very simple check!

Good luck
Jeroen
 
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:09 AM
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Thanks Jeroen, I'll check that just to be sure.

Thank you RobRoy, I sent you a PM. I know it's a hassle to sell and ship off a parts car, I did it for a 2003 XJR for a few months. That being said, I really appreciate you offering.
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:17 AM
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Hi all,
I put the new bearing in this morning but the sound was still there. According to the stethoscope every other pulley is quiet except the supercharger idler pulley and if I loosen the pulley mounting bolt slightly while the engine is running the sound gets louder and if I tighten it the sounds gets quieter. I don't want to torque it so much I strip the threads; it really shouldn't need to be that crazy tight, right?

Theories:
1) The bearings are remarkably easy to press into place. I did use my hydraulic press but I could pump it down with my hand and it went in very easy. I didn't need to use the detachable press handle. Could the bearing itself be slipping inside the pulley?
2) The mounting plate that goes between the bolt head and the pulley... Is it supposed to spin with the pulley? It does not. Could the sound be the turning pulley rubbing against that stationary mounting plate?

Also while running the engine to diagnose the pulley I got my first restricted performance message. P0332. That's a knock sensor related code so I was just thinking it's probably due to all the odd noises reverberating through the engine because of this noisy pulley that confused the sensor? Engine runs smooth and great despite the restricted performance message.
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:40 AM
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Diagnostic update:
Took the supercharger belt completely off. Car runs smooth and of course the noise is gone. P0332 persists though. I cleared it 3 times and it came back immediately. Is it a coincidence that the first time I've really worked on the car in a long while the knock sensor just happens to go out at the same time? Seems like too much of a coincidence. In my experience it's usually related to something I was doing. I did remove and re-install the bank 2 cam cover to check the chains but I've done that many times; I can't imagine it did anything to the knock sensor....but, it is on the same side....

Probably a dumb question but I've unplugged and plugged the electric fans about a dozen times during this recent work. Could those wires have anything to do with the P0332? Surely not but I've learned not to rule anything out.
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:39 PM
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The engine may run smooth at idle, but try to apply some descent peddle to it and it will lay down on you. Being your getting that code back immediately after clearing, its a hard code, solid fault....replace them. I did mine over a year ago, used '04 4.2L ones, much cheaper and I've had no issues.

Here's a thread of what to look forward to....https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...sensor-216124/ ...yep, off comes the SC, so replace both.

Here's and older one that discusses alternate sensor choices, please note the dates, prices have changed...https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...t-1-2-a-76815/
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:12 PM
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I really appreciate your response, Highhorse.

The best deal I can find is the STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS KS345 for $80.79 each. I've had good luck in the past with Standard Motor Products, in fact often the electrical components have turned out to be Denso when they arrived (EGR Valve for example).

They look different than the ones for an 04 4.2 in the pictures, if I shop for them both on the website. I guess I need to figure out what else I need to take it all apart and put it back together (gaskets, seals etc.). I have a receipt from 2013 where the supercharger was removed and the heater hoses, part load breather tube and various gaskets were replaced. That was 6 years and 35k miles ago but I wouldn't suspect they'd need replacing again anytime soon.

I think I'll set aside a few hours tomorrow and remove the supercharger. That way I'll really know what I need to order to put it back together.

I still have the supercharger idler pulley problem!! I'm going to try some salvage yards and see if I get lucky finding another pulley...If I can find the time. Bobroy was kind enough to send me a supercharger idler pulley of the grooved variety. If I can't get my smooth idler pulley to work again I may have to convert my supercharger belt/pulley system.
 
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:40 PM
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That's a good price also....OEM will run $125+. The only gaskets you need to replace is zero if you are careful pulling it apart. The TB downdraft gasket to the SC, the TB to downdraft and the SC plate gasket all are reusable if you take a second to remove them carefully. Check the union doughnut gaskets like you would a radiator hose. They move more than you think and wear...I just replaced mine after 8 yrs from the last set.

If your going to go hunting, you may as well save gas... Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market ...also, don't be afraid to ask Eaton directly.
 
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:18 PM
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The project is on hold for a while until I can get some time off work. Today was one of my last free days for a while and I mowed the yard and did a full transmission service on my wife's Passat. Poor XJR sat there un-driveable for the fist time since I've owned it.

One note though. I made my peace with the fact it could be a few weeks before I drive my favorite car again so I disconnected the battery and checked it with my charger. It showed 11.8 volts and about 7% charged! Probably wishful thinking but I wonder if I get the battery charged back up again, will the code go away? I also don't fully trust that the "reading" function on my charger is completely accurate. Battery was able to fire the car up in an instant...didn't feel weak. Still...I wonder....
 
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:41 PM
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I seriously doubt it....like 99.9% sure. Knock sensors are calibrated for one purpose and when they fail, they fail. Get yourself a Battery Tender, you won't regret it. I presently am out of town, have been for 2 weeks. The Jag is tethered to her tender and my Corvette battery is out of the car with one on it. Btw an fyi....never put a battery on the ground (dirt, concrete whatever) the earth will kill the cells by absorbing its energy. Even with a tender or charger, it will kill it in short time.
 
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Old 06-23-2019, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by harvest14 View Post
I disconnected the battery and checked it with my charger. It showed 11.8 volts and about 7% charged! Battery was able to fire the car up in an instant...didn't feel weak. Still...I wonder....
At 11.8 volts, the battery still has 30% of charge so it can crank the engine. However, you should avoid keeping the battery at such low voltage for longer periods of time to prevent the sulfation process (battery killer). Charge it now to full and also, when it is later connected in the car and sitting for more than about 10 days, it is good to recharge it. Always disconnect the ground cable when in-car charging the battery with a conventional battery charger. If you are using a good quality (intelligent) battery tender, there is no need to disconnect the battery from the car.

 
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:24 PM
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Anybody want to share a link to a recommended supercharger snout kit? Maybe just the coupler as preventative maintenance since it doesn't currently make any noise? I changed the SC oil about 5k miles ago but it's inexpensive, I guess I could change it again. I'm going to start collecting parts so when I remove the supercharger I'll be ready. I'm pretty sure I've already sourced the knock sensors, but hey...if you have a link for those I'll check that out, too.
 

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Old 07-01-2019, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by harvest14 View Post
Anybody want to share a link to a recommended supercharger snout kit? Maybe just the coupler as preventative maintenance since it doesn't currently make any noise? I changed the SC oil about 5k miles ago but it's inexpensive, I guess I could change it again. I'm going to start collecting parts so when I remove the supercharger I'll be ready. I'm pretty sure I've already sourced the knock sensors, but hey...if you have a link for those I'll check that out, too.
Iíd recommend getting the original spring coupler. Itís about 60 on eBay. The others tend to stretch over time as there is nothing to absorb the force if you were to drive hard from a stop. Iíve seen several M112ís when ruined aftermarket couplers. I had purchased the aftermarket coupler but then thought about all the strain it would be getting as Iím installing a smaller supercharger pulley and upgrading the crank pulley and ended up getting the oem Eaton spring coupler. If you still want to get the aftermarket coupler, I can let you have mine as I wonít be using it. I purchased it off zzp.
 

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