XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info

 
  #1  
Old 08-30-2017, 01:10 PM
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Default X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info

Howdy y'all,
First I want to say I hope this helps with this repair, diagnose it and give some insight on what to look for and where to look.
Prior to this, I had had vibration at certain variant speeds (48-53 mph and 73-77). The 50ish one was mostly from the front and the 70ish one solely from the rear. I noticed the vibration to be more harsh and constant on long speed turns. I finally got most of the front removed via a road force balance. The rest was lite, in the front, but extending toward the rear. So I suspected the flex discs, they were 17 yrs old and never replaced to my knowledge.

So I had my VDP over to my tech's to get the flex discs replaced, while I was on a job site, when he phoned me that the center bearing needed replacement. This did not surprise me, a couple months ago I got a big thud in the trans tunnel accelerating hard coming off a corner, so I was suspect of it. I had done searches on site here and the web and other than some rumors the bearing for XJ40's and X300's would work, I didn't find anything specific for X308's. The only option from Jag is buying a new shaft for $1700-1800.

I get over to my tech and he says this driveline shop may be able to help. I agree to do the leg work and off I go. It took them a week to find it, but they did find it and the repair was done for $184 ($114 for the bearing and $12.50 freight, $47.50 labor), far better than $1800. I asked them about their source and they just stated it was a company that doesn't advertise. Well, they inadvertently provided my with the part # on the receipt (no manufacturer). That's generally all I need, ..but this took a bit to find. I checked all the bearing companies I knew of to no avail trying to reference this part #. Then I did a search for manufacturers, picking out the ones I hadn't already checked until I found it, though through a provider.

Now before I go any further, my tech replaced the flex discs and reinstalled the shaft. I took the gal on an 80 mile check ride up to 100 mph, she rode beautiful, I was very happy.

So below are the pics (with details on them) and a source screenshot for those who wish to take this on themselves. It seems fairly easy, but originally without a source for a part or part #, its kind of an empty challenge.

I also conversed with respected member Don and he gave me this link on his repair he did on his XJ40 (Thank you Don) Welcome to Jag-lovers - Members Photo Viewing Page ..which looks very similar. They are apparently moving pics to a new server, so the thumbs won't open to anything right now. But the details he posts are excellent.


























 

Last edited by Don B; 08-30-2017 at 10:20 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:10 AM
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Thanks for the thoughtful insights. I am experiencing a vibration in my 2001 VDP between 50-60... I have balanced and rotated wheels. No change. The vibration lessens after about 5 miles of highway driving... Most noticeable after sitting overnight. Anyway, my question is about the bearing and if you think (or know) that it contributed in a meaningful way, to the vibration you experienced. With you insightful post, I am inclined to pursue this angle, as you have provided the intel, to make it a reasonably priced (potential) solution to the problem.
 
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:20 PM
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There are a couple of possibilities for your vibration I've read about other than this bearing. The odd one may be a cracked weld for the transmission cross brace. The other, as stated above, I was originally suspect of my flex discs since they were 17 yrs old, you'll see why in the pic. If you don't know of the flex discs, they are on either end of the prop shaft and are used to absorb the torque vs a US based car where the universals would have to eat it. With yours being 16 yrs old, I would say yours may be due also. At that time, you'll have the advantage of checking that prop shaft (carrier bearing). I got my flex discs off eBay (just C&P this in the eBay search... NEW Driveshaft Flex Disc MTC CBC-8996 Jaguar Vanden Plas XJ12 XJ6 XJ8 XJR XJRS ...got these for $38 ea, free shipping, Jag wants over $100 ea...), they are the brand BMW uses.
So here's the pic, you'll note one disc has more deterioration than the other....

 

Last edited by Highhorse; 09-16-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:07 AM
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Highhorse, this is brilliant, and could be the answer I've been searching for for over 2 years!!

My car is 19 years old too, 124k miles now. I know you have followed various postings I've done myself, and the one about having a vibration through the car that starts just before 50mph, and seems to vibrate less above that speed.

As you also know, I've replaced absolutely everything in the drive-line from engine to rear wheels, including a new gearbox (after someone suggested a Torque problem), shocks, bearings, joints, UJ's, bushes, and both Jurid rubber couplings. The only items not replaced are the diff and prop-shaft, and I'm starting to believe you've answered my problems with the pictures you've shown and the vibration you've fixed?

Only recently my tech guy suggested a prop-shaft balance might work, but I think your idea to replace this bearing is a no-brainer before any balancing. The only other option I have is (being very lucky to have a 'Jag only' breakers yard close by) to try a different prop from them that looks OK, and see if it changes anything? But it seems the cost of a 2nd hand prop could be more than getting hold of a new bearing!

My only other idea, something I can't seem to find any info about, is the Universal Joint on the prop-shaft? Is it the same size/fitting as the 4 axle UJ's I've fitted? Is it different, and if so where can I get one? If I get one of the bearings you've given so much info about, and I've already replaced the rubber couplings, it would make sense to renew the UJ if possible?

Any ideas, tips you can give could result in me finally getting all the mechanical work (I know about) fixed? I'm sure there will be loads who have this problem and will welcome your post... thanks again.
 
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:33 AM
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Thanks Paul....Unfortunately for the UJ, I do not have any info on (mine was tight)...but perhaps someone like Don or Sean may chime in to save the day for you? But I can tell you that a bad UJ can cause a vibration also.
For the prop shaft balancing, that isn't a bad idea to have done. My Indi suggested it as a precaution since it was at the driveline place anyways. They told me they spun it and it was fine.
The main purpose of the OP was to help diagnose, have a source for the part and make this repair cheaper and a do-it-yourself project, hopefully it resolves your issue?
 

Last edited by Highhorse; 09-20-2017 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 09-21-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by euphonium01 View Post
As you also know, I've replaced absolutely everything in the drive-line from engine to rear wheels, including a new gearbox (after someone suggested a Torque problem), shocks, bearings, joints, UJ's, bushes, and both Jurid rubber couplings. The only items not replaced are the diff and prop-shaft, and I'm starting to believe you've answered my problems with the pictures you've shown and the vibration you've fixed?
Hi Paul,

It is possible that your propshaft U-joint is worn. You might be able to detect any play by grasping one half in your left hand and the other in your right and then trying to push and pull and rotate the two halves against each other in every direction. There should be no play whatsoever, and the only movement should be in the directions the joint is designed to flex. If the hand test is not definitive, you can insert a large screwdriver or narrow pry bar between the yoke and spider and apply some prying force and look for movement. A propshaft shop should be able to replace the U-joint if necessary.

Another test you could perform is to move the position of the center bearing a little to the left or right. On the XJ40/X300 the instructions are to position the bearing "...a little left of center...," but on the X308 the instructions are to "Ensure that the assembly is central and that the bearing housing does NOT contact the transmission tunnel."

You may have a little wiggle room to move the bearing a little to the left or right before it contacts the transmission tunnel to see if the nature of the vibration changes, either for the worse or better. Before loosening the mounting screws, scribe around their heads so you can return the bearing and bracket to their original positions if the test is inconclusive or makes things worse.

Here's a snip from pdf page 283 the X308 Workshop Manual:




Note that when searching the X308 Workshop Manual pdf, the manual alternately uses the terms propshaft, prop shaft, driveshaft and drive shaft, and centre bearing or center bearing.

For owners of an XJ40 or X300, note that your differential pinion shaft is offset slightly to the right, while in the X308 the pinion is centered.

Note also that in BMWs with similar two-part driveshafts, the shaft is aligned with the center bearing offset slightly to one side to reduce vibration.

In conversing with Highhorse on this topic, the only reference I could find to using the XJ40/X300 center bearing on an X308 was from our member m4byfun in post #15 of this thread:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...aft-xjr-40155/

Finally, I want to thank Highhorse for his excellent detective work in tracking down the source for a replacement center bearing and for his excellent photos and descriptions. I have added his post to the X308 'HOW TO' quick links stickies so it can serve as an easily-accessed reference in the future. As our X308s approach "Classic" status, I'm sure more and more of us are going to face center bearing failure.

Thanks Highhorse!!!

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 09-22-2017 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:46 AM
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Add me to the list of support for Highhorse's diagnosis, research and how to fix instructions, great piece of work.

I have the use of a 4 post lift at the weekend, I will try your suggestions Don, interesting idea to move the shaft slightly to one side.
 
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Don B View Post
Hi Paul,

"For owners of an XJ40 or X300, note that your differential pinion shaft is offset slightly to the right, while in the X308 the pinion is centered."

************

"Note also that in BMWs with similar two-part driveshafts, the shaft is aligned with the center bearing offset slightly to one side to reduce vibration."
Hey Don, just out of curiosity, those 2 statements you made...take those in contrast to what I (by chance) stated and pictured, that the bearing rode high in the loop. Perhaps instead of offsetting it to one side or the other, Jaguar went upward with it to reduce vibration? Thus when mine let go, that ensued the vibration? ....and like you say, with this model getting on in age, this may become a more prevalent diagnosis.
 

Last edited by Highhorse; 09-21-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
Hey Don, just out of curiosity, those 2 statements you made...take those in contrast to what I (by chance) stated and pictured, that the bearing rode high in the loop. Perhaps instead of offsetting it to one side or the other, Jaguar went upward with it to reduce vibration?
That's a great point, Highhorse. I haven't compared the mounting height of the XJ40/X300 center bearing bracket with one for an X308, but it does seem possible Jaguar may have moved the center bearing offset upward instead of sideward. We'll have to look into that! The Workshop Manual does seem to indicate that the X308 bracket has some sideward adjustability given the instruction to ensure the bearing doesn't come into contact with the transmission tunnel. Did you notice any sideward adjustability on yours?

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 03:32 AM
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Hi Don B/Highhorse. I emailed PowerTrain Industries and asked if the 3080-25 was the correct part for my 1998 XJ, this is the answer:

I believe the 1998 XJR and XJ8 are the same platform just a different trim model so most likely the same center support bearing. You can always compare our dimensions in our catalog to your original.
3080-25: $108.61 + $35.00 apx international shipping cost.


Looking at the bearing on their site, there is a set of dimensions, there may be more in the catalog? Could these be useful in determining any offset left, right, up, or down? Just wondered if the dimensions would answer any questions, it may also be worth another question to them about any similarities with the XJ40/X300?

Paul
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Don B View Post
The Workshop Manual does seem to indicate that the X308 bracket has some sideward adjustability given the instruction to ensure the bearing doesn't come into contact with the transmission tunnel. Did you notice any sideward adjustability on yours?
Sorry Don, I had my inde tech finish the install since it was in his garage. When I get back in town I'll swing over and ask him.

Originally Posted by euphonium01 View Post
Looking at the bearing on their site, there is a set of dimensions, there may be more in the catalog? Could these be useful in determining any offset left, right, up, or down? Just wondered if the dimensions would answer any questions, it may also be worth another question to them about any similarities with the XJ40/X300?
The bearing offset is determined by the design engineer and placement of the carrier bearing in the tunnel....thus, Don's Q of adjustment. Though from Don's statement, it would seem plausible to keep the prop shaft inline (centered) as much as possible if there is a built in offset. That offset not being of the shaft itself, but simply of the bearing loop to apply a determined pressure to minimalize/eliminate vibration as stated for Beemers.
For the dimensions, ...for sure its worth cross referencing, that is part of why I provided the dimensions with my micrometer, initially to verify those provided by the seller and in case someone had those dimensions for review and if anyone found another source for the part (ie the XJ40/X300).
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:32 AM
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I'm finding this thread very interesting, especially as I have the 'dreaded rumble' at 50mph. In contact with the Jaguar breaker's yard I keep mentioning, I was told the prop-shaft of the 35k car I got the gearbox off, is still there, I'm hoping it's another coup just as the gearbox was

For the sake of £20 or so, I'm going to get a drive axle UJ and just see if it fits my old prop, if so, then get a bearing from PowerTrain, have it all balanced then I know I have a good spare. Not sure if anyone has already tried the axle UJ on the prop-shaft, any info?

As you rightly point out Highhorse, our cars can only get older, and research/solution to problems such as this will be invaluable, you and Don B will be kings of the Forum in no time lol
 
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:17 PM
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Hey Paul, looky what I found... https://www.fcpeuro.com/Jaguar-parts...49&m=58&page=1
I had forgotten another name we have for UJ's here is central velocity joint, and this came up. You can cross reference it to verify in the Select Your Vehicle search on the home page and look under driveshaft.
 

Last edited by Highhorse; 09-22-2017 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
Hey Paul, looky what I found... https://www.fcpeuro.com/Jaguar-parts...49&m=58&page=1
I had forgotten another name we have for UJ's here is central velocity joint, and this came up. You can cross reference it to verify in the Select Your Vehicle search on the home page and look under driveshaft.
That's interesting, Highhorse. I've never heard a U-joint called a central velocity joint.

Pretty amazing that the same rear axle U-joint was used from the 1988 XJ40 to the 2002 X100 and 2003 X308.

BTW, the Jaguar part number is JLM1388, not JLM001388 as cited on the FCPEuro website, and our forum sponsor SNG Barratt lists a new aftermarket unit for $32.00 plus shipping.

Also BTW, I happened to notice that Rock Auto carries the ÜRO PARTS aftermarket XJS/XJ40/X300 driveshaft center bearing, Jaguar part EBC9040, for just $58.79 plus shipping.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 09-23-2017 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:44 AM
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Its one of those, ...it depends on where your from things, ...but what got me was why it came up when I searched for it that way. It lists as a U-joint, but wouldn't come up on a search for it.
Thanks for the additional source info, more sources are good to know, I think this drive/prop shaft is about complete....now we need to know if this fixes Paul's issue?
 
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Old 11-01-2017, 08:44 AM
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Hi to everyone subscribing to this thread.

There's been a lot mentioned here about the prop-shaft center bearing, the U/J's, different opinions on the prop-shaft and how it might cause rumble at c. 50 mph.

I said earlier that I have this rumble problem with my 98 XJ8, and how I had changed virtually everything suspension and drive-line except the prop and diff. but the problem I've had right from the beginning still remained. The prop-shaft was my next attack, and how I intended getting hold of the prop-shaft from a 35k miles car, and refurbishing it to make sure it was spot on. I had checked the prices for the center bearing from PowerTrans, $100 plus shipping to the UK, how the U/J's were no longer available etc.

Well, I got the shaft, and as said, I took it to a local repair center. Chatting with the guy I mentioned about getting the center bearing from PowerTrans and the cost involved, and the situation getting hold of the U/J. Imagine my surprise when he turned to a shelf and showed me the correct center bearing, and the U/J again produced from off the shelf. The bearing was £20, the U/J £15!

A full refurbish of my prop-shaft is going to cost me less than £100, prepped and painted, balanced, and with the new U/J and center bearing included!

It is very difficult to describe the symptoms of a rumble, or vibration, even if someone else has sat in the car and witnessed it. It seems that someone else may have the exact same rumble, but for totally different reasons? I am hoping this resolves my car's rumble problem, but I am fully aware it could be a diff problem, or even something else! Just thought I would share the low cost and availability of these spare parts with everyone, I could let people know the repairer/supplier if they PM me.
 
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:09 PM
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Paul,

Thank you for sharing your experience. It would be most helpful an appreciated if you could supply the manufacturers and part numbers of the center bearing and universal joint your shop used on your propshaft.

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:19 PM
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+1 for Don's suggestion, I'm sure folks in the UK would be most appreciative for this source. The more sources, the better our whole community will be as whole.
 
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Old 11-02-2017, 04:34 AM
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Hi Don/Highhorse. No problem, I am collecting my prop early next week (think the guy doing it is on hols rest of this week). I will get the part numbers used, I doubt he will give me his source for supply but will try.

One question I have is regarding alignment between the two shafts. Mine has a 'thicker' spline than the rest, I am assuming this means the two will only go together one way and therefore won't upset the balancing, is this correct?
 
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Old 11-02-2017, 06:19 AM
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Yes, review the pics where you see the grease pencil marks and I explain that there. Coupling alignment is very important.
 

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