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X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info

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XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 ) 1997 - 2003

X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info

  #41  
Old 03-30-2018, 04:32 PM
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So this Powertrain Industries center bearing 3080-25 is, as far as I understand, a direct fit?

What about the earlier mentioned X300 center bearing, would it fit as well?
 
  #42  
Old 03-30-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Finn View Post
What about the earlier mentioned X300 center bearing, would it fit as well?
That is something Don had questioned. I don't know what his results were, I'm sure he'll chime in with that.
 
  #43  
Old 03-30-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Finn View Post
Can you change the center bearing by yourself or do you need driveshaft specialist for that?
The shop that did mine was a driveshaft repair shop. So they did this every day and the cost was much less.
 
  #44  
Old 03-30-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Finn View Post
What about the earlier mentioned X300 center bearing, would it fit as well?
Given that Jaguar used the same center bearing in the Series II, Series III, XJS, XJ40 and X300, at least those models with 6-cylinders and automatic transmissions, I think odds are good that the bearing used in the X308 is the same part, since the X308 monocoque is essentially identical to the XJ40/X300. However, I haven't had a chance to do any measurements that would support this theory.

In the photo below of the OE bearing for the SeriesII-X300 bearing, courtesy of SNG Barratt, you can see how strongly it resembles the original bearing on Highhorse's X308 driveshaft:




Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-30-2018 at 10:30 PM.
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  #45  
Old 05-02-2018, 03:49 PM
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Dear gents,
while having my rear axle assembly on the bench it made sense to replace the propshaft’s center bearing of my MY2000 XJR.

I did not experience any major issues, but since my car got 140k mls on the clock it was a good opportunity to replace it. With the propshaft in situ I couldn’t determine any damages to the rubber and/or the bearing itself. The only noteworthy was a noticeable ability to move the propshaft laterally and up and down due to (in my mind) softened rubber. And maybe some intermittent and slight vibration around 85mph.
Since I didn’t find any other source for the bearing than Powertrain Industries I ordered one bearing from them for 126 USD + 40 USD freight to Germany. PayPal payment was no issue and so the bearing arrived astonishingly one week later with FedEx.

Having had the rear axle off the car the disassembly of the propshaft was quite easy. I had to release the front mufflers from the cats, which freed up some additional space working with the spanners and ratchets to loosen the three bolts connecting the jurid coupling to the transmission’s output flange. As recommended by the workshop manual I marked the mounting position and even the bolts and nuts.
I had the transmission in “neutral” so that I could turn the driveshaft while loosening the bolts. I used a spanner and the walls of the transmission tunnel as “counter-weight” to hold the nuts in place while undoing the three bolts with a ratchet and an extension.
The workshop manual states not to remove the jurid couplings from the propshaft – but when marked and reassembled in the same order this should be of no problem.
Next on the list to disassemble was the handbrake mechanism with its bracket. I just let it hang after dismounted from the body.
Having removed the four bolts of the center bearing mounting plate I took the propshaft off the car.
Caution: the propshaft is a two-piece part. The two parts are coupled by a splined shaft connector just in front (direction of travel) of the center bearing. Please pay attention to not separate the two parts unless they’re on the bench or unless you have the safe opportunity to do some marks before separating.
My propshaft had a bigger tooth functioning as a guiding pin for correct re-assembly, but that’s nothing I’d stake everything on (fig. 3).

For removing the bearing the two parts have to be separated. Don’t forget to do the markings ;-)
No special tools needed for separating the two halfshafts – just pull them carefully apart. A plastic collar protects the connection against dirt (fig. 3).

Fig. 3 shows the splined shaft + collar and fig. 4 the toothed hub with the recess for the guiding tooth.

I reckon there are some special tools for pulling the old bearing off the splined shaft, but the following worked for me:
With an angle grinder I cut the bearing’s housing and the rubber (fig. 7). With the housing discarded I trimmed the rubber with a knife so that a metal ring was revealed (see fig. 8, beside the vise).
Cutting the metal ring with the angle grinder was an easy task, so that finally the actual bearing was exposed (fig. 8). Cutting the outer race of the bearing on two opposite sides allowed me to remove all the bearing’s interiors so that finally only the inner race remained on the splined shaft (fig. 9).

With a small diameter angle grinder I incised the race on two opposite sides so that I could finally split and/or widen the race with a chisel and a hammer. Doing so I discarded the inner race from the shaft without damaging the shaft itself.
If you got no small diameter angle grinder you can try drilling small holes side by side along the axis of the shaft. Watch out to not drill the shaft itself – a depth of 1/2 or 2/3 of the race’s thickness should be sufficient. Then strike the race across the holes with a chisel to relieve tension within the race’s steel. Repeat this on another or two positions and you’ll be good to remove the race.


After cleaning the shaft and its teeth I CAREFULLY hammered the new bearing in place with a small drift punch, some WD40 and patience! Watch out to NOT hammer the red rubber of the bearing (you risk damage to the interiors of the bearing) and to NOT strike accidentally the splined shaft’s teeth! This will result in issues when pushing the shaft into the toothed hub as it’s quite a tight fit!!!

Re-assembly of the propshaft is reverse to its removal.
 
Attached Thumbnails X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-2.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-3.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-4.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-5.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-6.jpg  

X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-7.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-8.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-9.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-10.jpg   X308 Propshaft/Driveshaft center bearing info-mittellager-11.jpg  


Last edited by xjr2014_de; 05-02-2018 at 03:51 PM. Reason: typo
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  #46  
Old 05-02-2018, 03:56 PM
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Here's a pdf-file of the repair for future reference or for the howto-section - freely available :-)
 
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  #47  
Old 05-03-2018, 09:38 AM
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Nice pictures ... both of my early Cayennes needed same. We sent the first out because the bearing was unknown back then (around $500 w/ shipping) the next my independent did with an exact repayment that I think cost us $50 .. It's not a hard job if you can get the bearing.
 
  #48  
Old 08-23-2018, 09:54 PM
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It's been sometime now since this thread was started, and there's been loads of other similar threads with very useful advice, especially from Highhorse who must know everything there is to know about the drive-line front to rear?

However, I'm still getting the dreaded rumble/vibrations between 50 and 70 Including the gearbox, all the way back to the wheels, I've changed everything, except the diff. Changing things as I go does seems to 'move' the speed it happens, the latest change has been a new rear engine/gearbox mounting, now it vibrates worse at 60mph, and much better at 50 (though it's still there at 50), every time though, no matter what I do, it all-but disappears at 70? Why is it so many of us have this problem, or are there too many reasons with no definitive answers?

I don't have the luxury of a lift, or a rolling road, so checking underneath while the car's up in the air or in front of me is impossible. It really is depressing when I've done so much to improve my car, my project of getting all the mechanical bits right, then re-painting the car during this summer, just hasn't worked out because of this last problem. During all the the many threads I've been asked if I've changed this bearing... yes! Have i changed this bush... yes. Have I change the Jurid couplings... yes, the list goes on and on (yes I know I'm at winging point, but I have changed just about the lot).

It seems now it's time to remove the diff, get it refurbished and see if that works, I simply cannot think of anything else it can be? Did Jaguar build in this fault for when our cars hit the 100k plus mark... lol? Maybe we need a table drawn up, one that lists all the potential causes in one column, what was done in another, then one for yes it worked, and one for no it didn't, and see if we can find a pattern emerging somewhere, because I know I'm at a loss with it!

Paul
PS. Sorry to be so negative, think it's the first time ever I've felt at a loss with a car problem!
 
  #49  
Old 08-24-2018, 05:21 AM
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.

I can well understand your frustration, and the only suggestion I have is to remove (or have a reputable shop remove) the drive shaft assembly and have it balanced. Because it seems that when you change something else, like replacing the rear transmission mount, the vibration doesn't go away, but simply changes in "feel", it makes me think the root of the problem is still the compound drive shaft, and balancing is possibly the cure.

Also, I would think it is worth paying a shop to put your vehicle on a lift, have them jack it up and "drive" the car. By doing this it should be easily visible where the vibration is coming from. I had this done when I experienced the common 50-70 vibration on my newly acquired 2001 VDP and it was an easy visual diagnoses. The shaft was removed and the center bearing replaced (as well as the two coupling bushings and rear tranny mount) and the vibration was gone.


.
 
  #50  
Old 08-24-2018, 06:35 AM
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+1 on what Carnival Kid says.

The workshop manual advises to match mark the transmission flange and the jurid coupling when removing the driveshaft. Same for the differential flange and the rear jurid coupling. As the manual also states that the jurid coupling must not be loosened or removed from the driveshaft under any circumstances, this is a strong indication that the whole drivetrain requires to be well balanced. And as you replaced a few components along the way this might require the driveshaft to be balanced again.
Or maybe some of the small balance weights got lost during the repair?! They're kind of just soldered to the driveshaft so it may be possible that they fell off when working on the driveshaft?!
I doubt that the vibrations arise out of the differential. I can't imagine how! Except if the input flange is bent or out of position. But this can not happen (either of both) with the diff in situ.

Cheers and good luck! Keep smiling!! We're with you!
 
  #51  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:20 AM
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Hi guys, and thanks for your replies.

The last job I did before fitting the rear gearbox mount, was to replace the driveshaft. I had a new centre bearing fitted, and new UJ, then I had it all balanced, so it's been done?

The only thing from your replies is that I didn't change the jurid couplings, being fairly new I thought they should be fine. Maybe worth changing them again do you think? Though frustrated i will keep going, gone too far to give up, though my last posting may have given that impression.

Any other advice is fearfully received
Paul
 
  #52  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:23 AM
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Fearfully received? Sorry, that should have read greatfully, who invented predictive text for smartphones?
Paul
 
  #53  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:25 AM
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I can well understand your frustration, and the only suggestion I have is to remove (or have a reputable shop remove) the drive shaft assembly and have it balanced.
And as you replaced a few components along the way this might require the driveshaft to be balanced again.
Hi to Carnival Kid and xjr2014_de. Apologies for the last 2 posts, tried sending them from a smartphone, at my age that was a miracle

Please see my post #32 in this thread, this is the fully refurbished and balanced prop-shaft I fitted in only March this year, so I didn't feel this would be the fault? However, after fitting, the vibration was slightly less and at a slightly different speed (but still between the dreaded 50 to 70) hence my comment about the speed 'moving' every time I did something or changed something. Your comments about the Jurid couplings has me asking questions though! If it is that important to mark the position of the shaft with the gearbox, and only remove the Jurid coupling from the gearbox not the shaft, what do you do when you're fitting a new coupling that won't have the markings, because maybe I did something wrong here? Secondly, as I changed the whole shaft, there were no markings on that either, so again, did I do something wrong or miss something? Should I have fitted another pair of new Jurid couplings when I fitted the refurbished shaft? I hope the above is an indication as to why I have the level of frustration, and my explanations/questions make some sense?

The whole car project has cost me quite a lot of cash, as our cars can do, but for the sake of being sure I'm leaning towards getting a used diff from my favourite local Jag breakers, having it reconditioned, and fitting that with another new pair of Jurids. Hopefully, I won't need to have the prop re-done (unless there's strong feeling I should?).

I can only take heed of as much of the advice given on here, especially from Highhorse, Carnival Kid, Don B, xjr2014_de, and my good friend ericjansen (if I missed anyone... apologies). I will review all previous comments and check everything is right as I do it, but it's gonna take me some time, especially as the UK weather starts playing up.

I will be fitting a refurbished diff, new Jurid couplings, and the (fairly) new shaft already on. As all these parts will have no relevant markings to go from, does anyone have any advice as to what I should do/check whilst I'm doing this, anything to finally cure this frustrating (and what seems everlasting) problem?

Always appreciative of all advice.
Paul
 
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  #54  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:29 AM
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Wow, it does seem as though you have covered all or most of the bases. I really do think that my next step would be to find a knowledgeable shop and have them put it on a drive-on lift, jack up the car, then have one person "drive" the car, while another is underneath detecting where the vibration stems from at the various speeds. That is what was done with my car in the initial stages and the source (the center bearing of the compound shaft) was obvious immediately. (I think they removed the rear wheels when they did this). We, the owner of the shop and myself, decided to replace the center bearing, as well as the two Jurid couplings, and the rear transmission mount, but by the time the parts arrived, there was some confusion among the mechanical staff and they only replaced the center bearing. There were embarrassed apologies all around, and I had to return the next day to have shaft removed once again, and have the Jurids and tranny mount fitted.(no extra charge). As I drove home and back again to the shop the next day, the 50-70 vibration had gone, but there still was a vibration at certain other speeds, and I can't now remember what they were, but it wasn't until the two jurid couplings and rear tranny mount were fitted that the vibration disappeared completely.

Now I know that you have replaced all of these mentioned items, so there must be some additional cause, although I'm at a loss the think what it would be. Like xjr2014, I don't think the problem is in the differential, but you never know, these things can be frustrating and a vibration that you are certain is from the rear can sometimes end up being a guilty component in the front, that is why I stress the need for a thorough inspection/test with the car "driven" in the air with experienced mechanics underneath tracking down the source.


.

.
 
  #55  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:37 AM
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Thanks for the reply CK, your suggestion makes sense really, it would be easier and a lot less work to have it on such a lift, and check it out. At the moment, the only lift I have access to is a '2 poster' where the rear wheels would be hanging down, that doesn't look to be sensible, I need the rear wheels set at running height to find the problem.

Hopefully, when I find the right lift and equipment to check it, the problem will become obvious as yours did, here's hoping. Will keep you informed.
Paul
 
  #56  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:01 AM
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Hi gents,

Well, somehow I missed that the new propshaft had been balanced prior to re-installation. Sorry for that.
But back to balancing the propshaft - do you know how they did it? Did they balance the shaft with installed jurid couplings? As the flanges of the tranny and the diff are only short shafts I doubt that there's a significant potential for imbalance to expect.
But since the workshop manual insists on keeping the jurid couplings and the propshaft together, the jurid couplings might be a source of vibration too, if they hadn't been taken into account when balancing the propshaft .

Another long shot might be the screws and washers for connecting the flanges, couplings and the propshaft. Are all six bolts and nuts and all washers per coupling genuine and identical? Are all 12 washers per coupling present?
As a washer easily weighs almost the same as a balancing weight on the propshaft, but experiences a higher centrifugal force, this might be another potential source of imbalance if there are one or two or three washers less. Or when they just used one or two other bolts or nuts than genuinely anticipated.

When I replaced my center bearing, I match marked every single bolt and even the washers so that components went back to the exact position as before. As said it's a long shot but worth checking - better safe than sorry ;-) And it might be cheaper than replacing a diff - for sure ;-)

Cheers, Alexander
​​
 
  #57  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:25 AM
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euphonium, I would suggest taking it to a reputable alignment shop and simply pay them the small fee to put the car on a drive-on lift and do the "vibration inspection". For such a small amount of financial outlay it could save you many many hours of searching and frustration.
 
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  #58  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:36 PM
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Hi all, and Happy New Year!

my car developed the dreaded vibration.as described in this thread. I have the prop shaft off and will be replacing the support bearing and the flex discs. One thing I noticed was that the car had some grime buildup just behind the support bearing and evidence that something touched the body..I think this supports the replacement of the support bearing. However, the grime is right above the universal joint making me wonder about replacing that as well while I have everything apart. Yes, I know that Jag doesn’t call out a part number for that u-joint so I was wondering if anyone knows of a part number that will work? Can find a number for X300 cars and that will probably work but you guys could save me a ton of time if you already know....

Thanks in advance!
 
  #59  
Old 01-05-2019, 08:39 PM
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Bruce, I did some internet searching myself, but also cannot find a part number or equivalent for the driveshaft UJ. The rear half-shaft UJs are easy to find (JLM1388) but I do not know if the center driveline UJ is the same.

Even searching through this previous, lengthy forum thread on the subject I don't find the answer, even though there were promises of the part number being provided in a couple of the posts, but I don't think they materialized.

Anybody out there have more info?

.

.
 

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  #60  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:31 PM
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Hi CK & Bruce. The prop-shaft UJ is definitely different to the drive shaft UJs, I tried it! As you know CK, I did everything to my setup under the car, and still had the 'rumble'. I finally got it right by fitting new parts, and had it balanced WITH the Jurids fitted. It must be the right way to do it, why else would Jaguar say not to remove the Jurid couplings from the shaft? The reason must be because the full assembly is balanced during build in production, and (they say) shouldn't be disturbed. Also, the Jurids will fit two ways, the right way and the wrong way, let me know if the Thread that Highhorse and I did will help, think it might be on the stickies or somewhere like that?

I got my spare parts, Center bearing, UJ fitted, and Jurids, when I happened to be chatting with a machine shop guy, he just said "they're easy to get hold of" and picked them off the shelf, I was very lucky! Got the lot fitted, making sure I used all the same bolts and washers so there was no imbalance from there (thanks to xjr2014_de for that info), and a balance of the full assembly done. 2 years I tried to get rid of that rumble, this finally sorted it :-)

I know it's a call to the UK, but it may be worth it to get the parts/part numbers, they were much cheaper than I expected:
Major & Aspinal
Unit 4 Rennys Lane
Dragonfield Industrial Estate
Durham. DH1 2RS. UK
+44 (0) 191 383 1818
I spoke to 'Stuart' the owner.

Hope this helps guys, apparently he's fixed loads of X308 shafts and posted parts all over the world?
Paul
 
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