I got my car back from the bodyshop on Wednesday and the repair made to the rear wheel arch is fantastic. The paint has been matched perfectly and the guy even repaired the inner arch too where the rust had got through. He also filled the cavities with a rust prevention product and gave the whole car a machine polish. He's also aligned my Exhaust system and welded my Range Rover Vogue Tips onto the tailpipes so it now looks exactly how I wanted it to. The car looks and sounds great, she looks so proud and majestic sat on those big wheels ready to whisk you away to a destination far away in total comfort. Except shes fitted with a ZF5HP24 gearbox and I don't trust that stupid piece of crap as far as I could throw it.

I've been driving X308's for 10 years now and I've had three of them during that time; two 4.0 cars and my current 3.2. To be honest the 4.0 engine and gearbox out the first car was extracted and fitted into the second car. Now anyone who's been on this forum a long time knows how much I love these cars, I love them to bits. But I've been bitten by the ZF snake a couple of times and it's left a nasty scar, I've actually got a dent in my leg where my first gearbox fell on me during a workshop mishap. Sean B and I removed the box from the first engine and swapped it for another when it popped it's A Drum. Within a few days the second box lunched itself and I called time on that car. 18 months later I was back in a 308, my current 3.2. I was hunting for an XJR but I really liked this 3.2 of mine, so despite my reservations about the gearbox I bought it. I had the Transgo valve fitted and the fluid changed but I've never really been able to fully trust it. A part of me is always anticipating the moment where the box goes pop again, any noise or rough shift sets alarms off in my head.

Yesterday I set about putting more fluid into the box because I have heard the pump starve a few times. I set the car on stands and with the help of a friend we set about adding more fluid, which as many of you know is the most ridiculous procedure in the world. I had everything ready for the job and had run through what was going to happen with my friend. I had the fluid pre loaded in my transmission syringe, I had a drip tray underneath the sump to catch any dribbles, I had rags on standby and the right tools on hand. But it still went **** up because I popped my finger on the transmission bracket when the nut finally cracked, then the stupid plug fell into the drip tray and fluid was going everywhere. Then I burnt my hand after I got fluid added and the plug back in because you're working on top of the exhausts. Despite all this, I think we may have got it. However I'm really pi**ed off with this gearbox now, it's responsible for the death of so many great cars, not just Jaguars. If this one were to go pop in the future I'll probably not try and repair it, I may even look towards changing the car for a supercharged car this summer. I had a chance last summer to get my hands on a unicorn XJR and I walked away from it, Sean B has never forgiven me for that one

What kills these boxes is the fluid filling procedure, no one really wants to do it and the majority of mechanics don't do it properly. There used to be a kit available to convert the filler plug into an engine bay mounted affair with a dipstick, but that appears to now no longer be available. However on this forum currently I know there are many who are engineers or know of good engineers. If we want our cars to last I propose we get our heads together to plan and produce our own version of the dipstick conversion. We could even look towards a forum sponsor to get involved and I know many of the XK8 guys would be interested too. What do you say?

Please comment below if you'd be willing to get involved with producing a kit for those of us who have the ZF box and would like our cars to last.

 

Yes I'm 3,000 miles into my rebuilt ZF & I get a rough shift into drive on my cold initial start of the day, it shifts perfectly in every other scenario but the cold start harshness spooks me. I've returned it to the shop that did the rebuild, they assured me it's fine, I even went to another transmission repair specialist whom dyno-tested it etc. & also gave it a clean bill of health. If I let it warm up for a few minutes it doesn't surface, also does it less when the ambient temperature is warmer. I guess it maybe one of these older car "quirks" us Jag owners learn to put up with lol.

 

I remember seeing that kit a few years ago and didn't buy it because I thought the seller was a little too proud of it - I wish I had, now. The refill procedure is unnecessarily complex and the conspiracy theorist in me attributes that to planned obsolescence.

Coming up with an appropriate tube and dipstick shouldn't be hard; the calibration of the stick would be the fiddly part. The stickiest question would be deciding how narrow or wide the range between "fill' and "full" should be.

 

Ken Edgar got the technical issues right.

Therefore, I might suggest to try contact the guy making them already.
In a small community as we are, it will be more polite as a start.

I read his reply is slow, but I actually never read he or his production stopped.
It will also be easier to just copy what he already makes.

 

Here ya go Stu... 5HP24 Dip Stick

 

Seems you had very low biorhythms when you did the gearbox top-up Stu? I too have looked at the car sometimes and thought, I'll check the fluid level tomorrow, and if course tomorrow never comes.

It would be a great idea to get the people on here who can design and make something similar to the one in the advert, maybe someone already has a head start and only needs help to develop their efforts to a finished item? I can't imagine anyone not being interested in having something like this fitted when the cost of repair/replacement is taken into consideration. I noticed in the advert on the post from Highhorse that the dipstick includes information about leveling the car and other useful stuff, seems like a great product but, I imagine almost double the price when shipping is added for the UK?
Paul

 

I too have an uneasy feeling about my ZF5HP25, after joining this forum I took the advice of many and invested in the TransGo kit. The transmission performs flawlessly and I just completed a 600 mile round trip followed by another 250 mile trip with no problems, however I do hear a sort of "whine" at idle, in park, that changes with the engine speed, that I've never heard in other cars.(my Ford F250 has 250K on the original trans and doesn't make that noise) After reading your "rant" I honed in on the following quote:-
"Yesterday I set about putting more fluid into the box because I have heard the pump starve a few times."
What does the pump starving sound like?
​​​​​​​Clive

 

 

This is a picture of the full set, it really is not much.

 

Stu,
I was reading your thread today while I was cleaning up my shop.
I have a Zf5hp24 on my bench and thought I'd see if I could come up with something.
I have a bucket of AN fittings, we used the with steel braided line for fuel and oil lines in my sons racecar, and try to see if I could come up with something.

I found a fitting with a 90ﾟ bend that Worked in our fill hole. From there you attach the steel braided line and run it to under the hood. I know you can use this to fill the transmission but some kind of dipstick would need to be designed to check the fluid level.

The dipstick would need to be made of some wire or cable, the tube opening is 3/8" or 9mm. It would need something on the end to check the fluid level.

I don't know if this is feasible. I don't know if the fitting will clear the exhaust or there my be other issues.

This was just a quick idea. Maybe others can add to it or maybe spark someone else's imagination.

 

The first good thing I see here is that the nut clears the transmission case edges, a problem with the original design.

 

I used the AN fittings and braided line to repair a transmission cooler line. I copied the post below.


I had a cooler line leak that I repaired today on the 98 xj8 that I sold. The leak was inaccessible to use motorcarmans method. I could barely see it and was unable even to get my hand there. The leak was caused by the power steering hose near the rack rubbing against the cooler line. I could see no way of replacing the line without lifting the motor or removing the transmission.

My solution was to fit a braided line with AN fittings. I didn't want to use rubber hose because of the line going near the cats and exhaust manifold.
I used a tube cutter to cut the lines at each end and then installed the AN fittings after flaring each end. Feed the new line near original line. Started car had no leaks then fill transmission to proper level.

The first photo shows AN fitting installed on fitting going to transmission
Seconomic photo shows other end installed at radiator.
Third photo shows line installed at transmission.
Attached Thumbnails

 

I thought about braided line as well, actually based upon your and Euphonium's post of the cooler pipe repair.

I can see the following pro's:
- easier to install
- easier to avoid "hot spots" during installation
- easier to source / manufacture in correct length
- shipping ease

and the following cons:
- more prone to misreading if the vertical bent is not controlled
- more prone to "flexing back" to the hot spots if not properly fixated
- more connections, so more risk of leaking

Maybe a combination of flexible and fixed is worth considering.

UPDATE:
So I have been using my old contacts a bit, and traced several suppliers who OFFER custom made dipsticks / pipes / fittings, made according to sample.
That does not mean they will actually do it, and specially in Mainland China there will be the MOQ issue (Minimum Order Quantity, a nice way to say they are not interested).
But looking at the positive side, there seem to be some possibilities without one of us hobby-ing in his garden shack.
I am also trying to get some info from Taiwanese suppliers, in general their quality is better, and they are often a bit more flexible in smaller quantities.

 

 

Just a wild guess here on experience, For Taiwan 50 pcs will be maybe be possible, probably already difficult.
China generaly thinks bigger, 500pcs is already very low ....
It will all depend how busy, or how quiet they are in their production.

 

I been thinking about this a little, after a few hours of sleep.

The tubes are too narrow to try to add fluid into. It would take a while to and the fluid unless you pushed it in with a pump setup.Then if you are able to get fluid into the transmission through the tube it will be awhile before you could check the level because of the fluid in the tube would false reading until there was no more residue on the sides of the tube.

Thinking of using the tube to check the fluid level, or the possiblity of adding a sensor there that would sense when the fluid reaches the port.

As for adding oil it might be possible to find a different way to get the fluid into the transmission. I would have to look at the transmission later, it's 2:30am here, but it might be possible to add fluid somewhere else.

Still running it through my head so your ideas are appreciated.

 

The old XJs with the BW boxes filled through the dipstick tube - the ID is somewhere in the neighborhood of 3/4". I would think the false reading issue would be minimal with a tube that size. However, the range between "fill" and "full" on my SIII's dipstick is around 1" on the stick. I'm not sure the ZF would tolerate a range like that.

On a side note: Bob, you've been into the ZF box before. How much does it differ mechanically from the old BW boxes (ie. are there any other special tools other than what you'd use to build a typical auto box)? I've rebuilt BWs and TH400s; they aren't difficult to do. I don't need to right now but I wouldn't have an issue with rebuilding it myself when the time comes if I have access to the right bits.

 

Ok, so I thought it over a bit, and got some further reply from possible suppliers.
Nothing concrete yet, but with a working week just starting, maybe I can say more in the coming days.
For your info, I have been outsourcing production in Asia for some 25 years, so I guess I got a feel for what is BS reply, and what might be a credible lead

Using this little thread here before maybe going more public, and in order to have this going smooth technically, I will need support for:

1. a 1:1 (non functioning = OK) sample for the exact 3-D shape, including all bents, location of brackets, etc. Auto CAD might be favorable here, depending supplier, but the old 1:1 will be working fine.
I had a quick look at my engine bay, and to my surprise there seems to be quite some space to fabricate / route /position a dipstick as Jaguar should have done it, the exhaust area of course known as tight.
I hate aftermarket-looks, but I can imagine the dipstick going under the air intake, then coming up next to the right-side engine cover, using a bolt of the cam cover for a bracket and height fixation (as the engine oil dipstick), and use an identical (maybe yellow) dipstick cap.


2. A height indication of the gear box oil level @ a certain temperature (with minimum and maximum if applicable), to be measured from an accessible point of the engine block / fitting / bolt.
This to determine / check the dipstick length / indicator positions on a level positioned car.

Due to worsening back problems, I will not have the possibility to figure out the above by myself, but will be happy to try add my share on this matter if others help.
I hope someone will jump in here.

E.

 

That's a great idea Eric, I think we're defiantly on the right track here, hopefully some others will chime in and get involved. I can't measure or look at it myself either this week because I'm away with work. Can anyone else get a spare bit of time to get a look? I'll post in the XK section to see if anyone can get involved from there.

Come on! Lets make a real community effort here to work together to find a solution that has long hampered and harmed our car's image, performance and lifespan.

I'm willing to chip in my fair share, the more of us who get involved, the less the outcome will cost us!

 

I'll support this venture.