My apologies for posting in a 1995-1997 forum, but I could not find a forum that included my car.

I have a 1994 Vanden Plas (XJ6). I need to top of the transmission fluid. The dipstick calls for Dextron II-D, which is no longer available. I am considering either O'Reilly house brand "High Mileage" (conventional) or Valvoline "Dex/Merc" (semi-synthetic). Can anyone offer some guidance about either of these products or recommend a different product?

Thank you all in advance for reading this post.
Bob

 

Hi Bob,

I have moved your post from the forum for the X300 to the forum for the XJ40, which is the Jaguar factory project code for your 1994 VDP.

The closest commonly-available substitute for Dexron II or III that I have been able to identify is Valvoline Dex/Merc in the blue bottle, not the full synthetic MaxLife Dex/Merc in the red bottle. The blue bottle Dex/Merc has a Viscosity Index of 190, which is very close to that of original Dexron II / III. The red bottle MaxLife has a significantly lower (thinner) viscosity, and I have learned from experience that the ZF 4HP24 transmission in your '94 will not function optimally on a thinner fluid.

If you decide to do a complete transmission fluid change, other fluid options include the synthetic Mobil 1 ATF, and what I consider the very best Dexron II / III substitute for the 4HP24, synthetic Redline D4 ATF, available directly from Redline Oil or from vendors like Summit Racing.

Cheers,

Don

 

Dexron 111 still widely available in Canada.

Larry

 

Hi Larry,

Could you tell us some brands of Dexron III that are still sold in Canada?

According to Wikipedia, which of course may not be accurate, "All Dexron-III (H) licenses expired permanently at the end of 2011, and GM now supports only Dexron-VI fluids for use in their older automatic transmissions." I wonder if this is true only in the U.S.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON

Plenty of third-party fluids claim to be compatible with the Dexron II / III standards, but when you actually investigate their specifications per their Material Safety Data Sheets, you find that most of them have significantly lower viscosities than Dexron II / III, and that includes Dexron VI, which is significantly lower in viscosity.

Cheers,

Don

 

Hi Don, This is one I would use, but again there seems to be several brands available - this one I guess is generic (MotoMaster is Canadian Tire's own brand) but at least it's on the shelf at Canadian Tire .. scroll down for specs

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...-0281502p.html

Larry

 

Hi Don,

Thank you for moving my post to a more appropriate forum. and more importantly, thank you for taking the time to provide me with that very comprehensive answer.

I sincerely appreciate your assistance. Because I am just "topping off" the transmission fluid, I will use the Valvoline Dex/Merc in the blue bottle.

Warmest regards,
Bob

 

Hi Larry,

You'll notice that that fluid is not actually labeled Dexron III. It is labeled Automatic Transmission Fluid, then in small print, "For vehicles where Dexron-III(R) or Mercon(R) fluids are required." This is similar to the labeling practice in the U.S., which is consistent with Wikipedia's statement that General Motors is no longer issuing licenses for use of its trademarked brand, Dexron III.

You can view the Material Safety Data Sheet for MotoMaster ATF on pdf page 96 of this document:

https://www.tayloroilfieldservices.c...ds-2016-v1.pdf

The viscosity of MotoMaster ATF is specified at 40 mm2/s at 40 degrees Centigrade, which is actually higher than original ACDelco Dexron III, but close enough that it is probably a very good equivalent. I wonder if we could get it in the U.S.? Want to start an oil distribution business?

Cheers,

Don

 

Well this is a surprise! Something available in Canada that you can't get in the States! We can't even get TECHRON in BC because the damn bottles aren't bilingual!

Y'know, I rarely top off my tranny (if ever) but I used this fluid when I did the filter change and flush back in 2014 ... and for the record, the trans has been just fine and worry free since.

Of course, I have some on hand for topping off the perennially leaky hose connectors on the PS reservoir

Oil distribution business? Thanks but no thanks

Larry

 

Hope this thread isn't TOO far dead, but I performed my Engine Oil Change and Automatic Transmission Fluid/Filter change yesterday, and I had this very AFT question.

I'm interested about the viscosity thing, Don. I was always under the impression that Dexron was backwards compatible, but maybe I need to find a few gallons of Mobil1 ATF and flush this transmission out.

My car has the following ATF service history:

11/1996 - 29k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter JLM 2128 (P.O's ownership, Jag dealer, part of factory "B" Service)
06/2002 - 47k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter JLM 2128 (P.O's ownership, Jag dealer, part of factory "B" Service)
07/2011 - 54k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter (P.O's ownership, Indy shop installed wrong aftermarket "shallow" filter)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/2013 - 60k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (My ownership, Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF)
11/2013 - 61k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF)
02/2014 - 63k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (Castrol Dexron IV ATF)
07/2019 - 96k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter (Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF, OE Jaguar Deep Filter, JLM 2128, Thanks EverydayXJ!)

So for the past 6 years and 30k miles, I've been running very thin Dexron IV synthetic fluid. The fluid has always been bright and clear, no burnt smell or particles. But my transmission is as clunky as could be! What gives?

I was hoping the new filter would smooth things out... And I thought I was on the right track when I found the shallow aftermarket filter with no pickup tube. But now I'm wondering if viscosity is the issue. Would a thicker oil promote smooth changes?

I found a lubricant guide from ZF, which lists the 4HP24 as using oils from the 11A and 11B category. They list those approved oils as follows:




Nick

 

Nick,

The ZF document that lists passenger car transmission fluid recommendations is TE ML-11, and the most current version can be downloaded here:

ZF Manual & Automatic Transmission Fluid Specifications TE ML-11 20190107


Here's a snip that includes the 4HP24:



From previous research I think I recall that the 11A and 11B classes are essentially obsolete and as I mentioned earlier in this thread the Dexron II/III tradenames are no longer licensed. There is some confusion in ZF's own recommendations because they list ZF Lifeguard 5 at the end of their class 11B fluid list, but Lifeguard 5 is never recommended for use in the 4HP24, only in the 5HP18 with green type plates (and in the 5HP24 used in the X308s and 4.0L X100s).

I ran Dexron VI in our '93 with 4HP24 for probably years, but it wasn't until I replaced it with Redline Oil D4 that I realized the torque converter had never been locking up completely.

The next time you flush your fluid you might try a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix to see if that and a fluid with the proper viscosity will smooth out your shifts.

Cheers,

Don

 

Thank you, Don! I will make a note and go with your advice on the Redline D4. I have always heard good things about their products, but have never actually tried them. That's very interesting about the lockup! I will be observing that for sure.

Nick

 

...or nip across the border and pick up some Motomaster ATF from Canadian Tire!

Larry

 

Nick,

I was thinking about your transmission issues. Correct fluid is critical of course, but other issues could be at play. Smooth gear shifts are orchestrated between the ECM and TCM based on several sensor inputs, among them engine load (MAF sensor), engine speed (CPS), road speed (ABS Control Module), and throttle position (TPS). If any of the important signals are a little out of range, shifts can be affected. You might try cleaning the electrical connector at the transmission, drilling drain holes in your TPS housing and flushing it, cleaning the electrical connectors for all important EMS sensors, and cleaning the ground points referenced by the ECM (two at the intake manifold runners and the one on the firewall behind the cylinder head), the ones referenced by the TCM (there are three, at least one is on the firewall behind a blower motor), and the engine ground strap.

Now that I think about it, you've had some ABS issues. I wonder if, when you get the wheel speed sensor lead repaired, your shift quality will improve?

Cheers,

Don

 

Thanks Don,

I will have a look at the items you mentioned. I have never had the transmission connector disconnected, so I will definitely clean those contacts and maybe give them some DeoxIT too.

As long as I've had my PDU, I've never really taken the car for a thorough drive with it logging data. That would let me trace those exact signals you're mentioning. As far as the ABS signal, it certainly could be sourcing the speed data from that particular wheel, but this shift quality has been persistent since I bought the car, so I always thought it was normal. It was when I drove a relative's '91 Jeep Cherokee with 280k miles, original transmission and not-so-thorough service history that I realized something was wrong.

I've cleaned the various ground connections at one point or another, but have never gone through them systematically. I will follow your tutorial on Jag-Lovers (your '93 should be somewhat similar to my '92 as far as ground points go).

There is a TSB for 90-94 cars with harsh 3-4 upshifts and judder in reverse, which involves replacing the Pressure Control Solenoid spring with a revised one. That part, NHD 5601AA, is NLA. I have not checked the serial number yet to verify if this applies to my particular car.

I have been reading through a post here, on a BMW 6-series forum, which details the removal and cleaning of the 4HP22 valve body and solenoids. From a cursory glance, it appears to be very similar if not identical to our 4HP24 valve bodies. It seems a bit invasive, however it all looks fairly straightforward. I'm glad I'm not the only one the struggled with the filler tube nut! Big adjustable wrench + black iron pipe + a hundred or so pounds of foot pressure broke it free.

They appear to have had good luck thoroughly cleaning the valve body passages, solenoids and screens, if present. I would be surprised if there was any significant build up of this "thin coating of grey sludge" they mention, but to be honest, I'd be hoping to find it!

Nick

 

Nick - my old crate has a few issues as I suppose all aging cars do, however, one thing I can say for sure about the gear changes - they are so smooth as to be almost imperceptible. CVT like!

I use the slush box like a manual and drive on (and Jim thinks I'm hard on ) the gears, changing down often at a fair clip and rarely using brakes to adjust my speed.

Given my style of driving for the last 7 years, I'd say the transmission has had a pretty good workout. I changed the fluid and filter about 3 yrs ago using that Canadian Tire stuff and all still nice and pinky.

I think these ZF 4HP24's are pretty special. Big fan here.

(touches wood rapidly)

Larry

 

Thanks Larry, that's exactly the kind of input I wanted to hear to confirm if it's abnormal or if I am just overly sensitive. Very good to know!

Nick