XJ40 ( XJ81 ) 1986 - 1994

Dexron II-D Substitute

 
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:57 PM
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Default Dexron II-D Substitute

My apologies for posting in a 1995-1997 forum, but I could not find a forum that included my car.

I have a 1994 Vanden Plas (XJ6). I need to top of the transmission fluid. The dipstick calls for Dextron II-D, which is no longer available. I am considering either O'Reilly house brand "High Mileage" (conventional) or Valvoline "Dex/Merc" (semi-synthetic). Can anyone offer some guidance about either of these products or recommend a different product?

Thank you all in advance for reading this post.
Bob
 
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:40 PM
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Hi Bob,

I have moved your post from the forum for the X300 to the forum for the XJ40, which is the Jaguar factory project code for your 1994 VDP.

The closest commonly-available substitute for Dexron II or III that I have been able to identify is Valvoline Dex/Merc in the blue bottle, not the full synthetic MaxLife Dex/Merc in the red bottle. The blue bottle Dex/Merc has a Viscosity Index of 190, which is very close to that of original Dexron II / III. The red bottle MaxLife has a significantly lower (thinner) viscosity, and I have learned from experience that the ZF 4HP24 transmission in your '94 will not function optimally on a thinner fluid.

If you decide to do a complete transmission fluid change, other fluid options include the synthetic Mobil 1 ATF, and what I consider the very best Dexron II / III substitute for the 4HP24, synthetic Redline D4 ATF, available directly from Redline Oil or from vendors like Summit Racing.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-07-2019 at 09:15 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2019, 09:49 PM
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Dexron 111 still widely available in Canada.

Larry
 
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Dexron 111 still widely available in Canada.
Hi Larry,

Could you tell us some brands of Dexron III that are still sold in Canada?

According to Wikipedia, which of course may not be accurate, "All Dexron-III (H) licenses expired permanently at the end of 2011, and GM now supports only Dexron-VI fluids for use in their older automatic transmissions." I wonder if this is true only in the U.S.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON

Plenty of third-party fluids claim to be compatible with the Dexron II / III standards, but when you actually investigate their specifications per their Material Safety Data Sheets, you find that most of them have significantly lower viscosities than Dexron II / III, and that includes Dexron VI, which is significantly lower in viscosity.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-06-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:41 AM
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Hi Don, This is one I would use, but again there seems to be several brands available - this one I guess is generic (MotoMaster is Canadian Tire's own brand) but at least it's on the shelf at Canadian Tire .. scroll down for specs

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...-0281502p.html

Larry
 
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:59 AM
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Hi Don,

Thank you for moving my post to a more appropriate forum. and more importantly, thank you for taking the time to provide me with that very comprehensive answer.

I sincerely appreciate your assistance. Because I am just "topping off" the transmission fluid, I will use the Valvoline Dex/Merc in the blue bottle.

Warmest regards,
Bob
 
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Hi Don, This is one I would use, but again there seems to be several brands available - this one I guess is generic (MotoMaster is Canadian Tire's own brand) but at least it's on the shelf at Canadian Tire .. scroll down for specs

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...-0281502p.html
Hi Larry,

You'll notice that that fluid is not actually labeled Dexron III. It is labeled Automatic Transmission Fluid, then in small print, "For vehicles where Dexron-III(R) or Mercon(R) fluids are required." This is similar to the labeling practice in the U.S., which is consistent with Wikipedia's statement that General Motors is no longer issuing licenses for use of its trademarked brand, Dexron III.

You can view the Material Safety Data Sheet for MotoMaster ATF on pdf page 96 of this document:

https://www.tayloroilfieldservices.c...ds-2016-v1.pdf

The viscosity of MotoMaster ATF is specified at 40 mm2/s at 40 degrees Centigrade, which is actually higher than original ACDelco Dexron III, but close enough that it is probably a very good equivalent. I wonder if we could get it in the U.S.? Want to start an oil distribution business?

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-07-2019 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Don B View Post

The viscosity of MotoMaster ATF is specified at 40 mm2/s at 40 degrees Centigrade, which is actually higher than original ACDelco Dexron III, but close enough that it is probably a very good equivalent. I wonder if we could get it in the U.S.? Want to start an oil distribution business?

Cheers,

Don
Well this is a surprise! Something available in Canada that you can't get in the States! We can't even get TECHRON in BC because the damn bottles aren't bilingual!

Y'know, I rarely top off my tranny (if ever) but I used this fluid when I did the filter change and flush back in 2014 ... and for the record, the trans has been just fine and worry free since.

Of course, I have some on hand for topping off the perennially leaky hose connectors on the PS reservoir

Oil distribution business? Thanks but no thanks

Larry



 
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Old Today, 08:20 AM
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Hope this thread isn't TOO far dead, but I performed my Engine Oil Change and Automatic Transmission Fluid/Filter change yesterday, and I had this very AFT question.

I'm interested about the viscosity thing, Don. I was always under the impression that Dexron was backwards compatible, but maybe I need to find a few gallons of Mobil1 ATF and flush this transmission out.

My car has the following ATF service history:

11/1996 - 29k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter JLM 2128 (P.O's ownership, Jag dealer, part of factory "B" Service)
06/2002 - 47k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter JLM 2128 (P.O's ownership, Jag dealer, part of factory "B" Service)
07/2011 - 54k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter (P.O's ownership, Indy shop installed wrong aftermarket "shallow" filter)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/2013 - 60k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (My ownership, Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF)
11/2013 - 61k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF)
02/2014 - 63k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid (Castrol Dexron IV ATF)
07/2019 - 96k miles - Drain and Replace Fluid, Replaced Filter (Valvoline Dexron-VI ATF, OE Jaguar Deep Filter, JLM 2128, Thanks EverydayXJ!)

So for the past 6 years and 30k miles, I've been running very thin Dexron IV synthetic fluid. The fluid has always been bright and clear, no burnt smell or particles. But my transmission is as clunky as could be! What gives?

I was hoping the new filter would smooth things out... And I thought I was on the right track when I found the shallow aftermarket filter with no pickup tube. But now I'm wondering if viscosity is the issue. Would a thicker oil promote smooth changes?

I found a lubricant guide from ZF, which lists the 4HP24 as using oils from the 11A and 11B category. They list those approved oils as follows:




Nick
 

Last edited by NTL1991; Today at 08:50 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old Today, 11:36 AM
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Nick,

The ZF document that lists passenger car transmission fluid recommendations is TE ML-11, and the most current version can be downloaded here:

ZF Manual & Automatic Transmission Fluid Specifications TE ML-11 20190107


Here's a snip that includes the 4HP24:



From previous research I think I recall that 11A and 11B class fluids are essentially obsolete and as I mentioned earlier in this thread the Dexron II/III tradenames are no longer licensed. There is some confusion in ZF's own recommendations because they list ZF Lifeguard 5 at the end of their class 11B fluid list, but Lifeguard 5 is never recommended for use in the 4HP24, only in the 5HP18 with green type plates (the 5HP24 was used in the X308s and 4.0L X100s).

I ran Dexron VI in our '93 with 4HP24 for probably years, but it wasn't until I replaced it with Redline Oil D4 that I realized the torque converter had never been locking up completely.

The next time you flush your fluid you might try a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix to see if that and a fluid with the proper viscosity will smooth out your shifts.

Cheers,

Don
 
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Old Today, 11:40 AM
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Thank you, Don! I will make a note and go with your advice on the Redline D4. I have always heard good things about their products, but have never actually tried them. That's very interesting about the lockup! I will be observing that for sure.

Nick
 
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Old Today, 11:43 AM
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...or nip across the border and pick up some Motomaster ATF from Canadian Tire!

Larry
 
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