XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

1968: What Next for JAGUAR? S1 launch with Lyons footage

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Old Dec 23, 2024 | 10:08 PM
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Default 1968: What Next for JAGUAR? S1 launch with Lyons footage

 
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Old Dec 24, 2024 | 06:05 AM
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Thank you for this video! What a special Christmas gift! Seasons greetings to you all.
 
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Old Dec 24, 2024 | 06:43 AM
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the narrator incorrectly closed the bonnet / hood of the XJ-6 by pushing it down on just one corner as can be seen at the end of the video, leaving the opposite corner un-engaged !

I have learned to push down at the center of the bonnet and more or less hard enough to engage both locks positively.



 
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Old Dec 24, 2024 | 01:42 PM
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Wonderful flashback, and also a reminder of what UK industry could have been with better judgement and longer term decision making.

In 1965 the UK made more cars than any other country than the USA.
Between 1955 and 1973 the UK motorcycle industry lost a dominant worldwide market share to practically zero.

Throughout this period 1965 to 1990 only Ford UK, out of all the other makes, remained competitive and represented substantial sales success.

By 1985 the non Ford UK car industry was almost finished as a world-competitive player. The other car construction industry in the UK revived in the late 1980s and 1990s with Japanese-run factories set up by Honda, Nissan and Toyota, while Ford car production gradually reduced. There are still important Ford engine and component production facilities in the UK, but outside that only Nissan and Toyota facilities remain which (as with all car manufacturers) are all under threat owing to the scientifically unsupported myth that CO2 levels in the atmosphere are causing climate change; a myth which has been eagerly latched on to by globalists in order to reduce the mobility and the independence of the populace (rant over).

Jaguar cars through to about 2000 were wonderful; the problem Jaguar now have is that mass produced cars can replicate the perormance and handling characteristics of far more expensive machines; so Jaguar's USP of a "far better than normal car" at half the price of the traditional "better than normal car" companies' rival offerings, is imposible to deliver. The XJ 6 saloon in the video was generally reckoned to be faster, quieter, more refined, with better roadholding and better interior comfort than the Rolls Royce of the day which sold at a huge multiple of the Jaguar price.

The big unanswered question is: "Where does the business go from here?". FWIW, my head (not heart) tells me that their new strategy of charging as much as Aston Martin or Bentley for a Jaguar product - however good it might be - will not succeed. Maybe it is the end of an era...
 

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Old Dec 24, 2024 | 07:50 PM
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Jaguar cars were always 'affordable' both as new cars and also used, especially used.

Jaguar management seem convinced that the way ahead is to make the cars 'unaffordable' (to the average very well-paid person). I do fear for the future of Jaguar, because I'm pretty sure the likes of Bentley and Aston Martin, Ferrari, and other very high-price cars are not going to let Jaguar eat their lunch. Here in Crewe where I live, Bentley Motors have got larger and larger over the years since we moved here 30 years ago, and the factory site is now well over twice the original size. They succeed because they have the financial power and engineering excellence of the the VAG empire behind them. So will the financial power and engineering excellence of JLR be able to support an annual production volume of 30,000 Jaguar cars a year and make money ? The selling price level and what the buyer gets for that price has to be right for the car as they enter what is a new market to them. I do have my doubts if the actual car is almost the same as that pink concept car. It is also all-electric, and I do doubt whether buyers at the sort of price Jaguar are talking about will want an all-electric car even if the range is over 400 miles as claimed. So far there has been no miracle battery technology that can match the energy density of petrol.
 
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Old Dec 25, 2024 | 04:32 PM
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I grew up in Coventry and remember as a kid the local pride when the brand new xj6 was voted car of the year in1969. Some of my friend's parents worked at the Jag so it was almost like family, but the harsh reality of the BMC merger followed by the British Leyland low point was pretty devastating locally.

Couple of interesting links

Long, interesting read:

Jaguar XJ6/XJ12 development story by Keith Adams


and the workforce perspective of trying to make ends meet despite being sent home unpaid due to parts and supply chain issues in 1972:

Jaguar strike ends 6 September 1972


Only a few years later a lot of the midlands motor industry was a disaster area....

Happy Christmas!


 
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Old Dec 28, 2024 | 11:23 AM
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This is all part of a long arch of decline for Western Manufacturing. The Germans figured it out by successfully fostering a false narrative of mechanical / engineering superiority, that lasted for awhile now they rely on exclusivity, lifestyle and brand image (elitism) on a large scale. The Italians did the same on a much smaller scale albeit with some success and even more eliteism, this even spilled over to the secondary market with mechanically awful machines like the Countach finding a second life among the most garish of the neaveau rich. All that's fading and another day of reckoning is upon us. Jaguar is trying to do the eliteism thing about 10 years too late, it's a crowded field and the market place is shifting due to global economic realities with regard to the availability of workers, labor costs and material inflation. Same thing played out in the early 70's and seems like what is going on now rhymes. The rise of Korean and Chinese manufacturing rhymes with the efforts of Japan and I suspect it will all end the same way. Japan was using currency tactics and export manufacturing to drive their economy, it's ended up leading to a population bust and 30 years of economic stagnation. I suspect China and Korea are on the same path. Sadly the price for all this is paid for by middle class people in the west who love the cheap goods, but loose their job and their work ethic all at the same time. The loss of Jobs and work ethic both seem to come together for some reason and one causes the other. That's the price of globalization. Rich and poor and nary in between. This has all worked out better for us here in the USA where we have capital and some growth. The middle classes had to shift and find refuge in trucking, shipping and professional services. That's easier to do when you're just 350 million people, have friendly neighbors, hold the world greatest military while have a culture of invention, creativity and technological superiority. All this is not the case for Europe where capital flight to the USA may lower investment even more and lead to more economic stagnation and social unrest. The European union was a hedge against that for a while when it was officially launched in 1993. The 90' into the late 2000's ,were the heydays for German manufacturing and they really hit a stride with VAG becoming the worlds largest auto manufacturer closely followed by Stalantis and Mercedes-Benz. That's on the wane with the rise of Korean / Chinese manufacturing. All the while the Elite of Europe thrive and can invest overseas to maintain their elite status. How will that play out? The answer is crisis and instability.
 

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Old Dec 28, 2024 | 11:41 AM
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The dollar as the global reserve currency is the other ace in the pack for the USA, although it has largely been captured by the globalists for their goals at the expense of the native tax payers.
Separately Jag is now an Indian globalist company - the Indian economy is bigger than the UK now - and Tata are playing with Jag as a sideshow to their more profitable lines. Weird times with the Lady Penelope electwic (sic) pink job they launched...
 
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Old Dec 28, 2024 | 12:52 PM
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I think the money today is in the classic / antique / ANALOG Jaguar, as the modern DIGITAL Jaguar started to lose their shine in 1988 in USA with unreliable electronics, plastic parts, problematic suspensions, etc.

I can't recall when I last saw a Series 1, 2, or 3 XJ on Florida roads (other than mine). Not even a XJ40.

On the other hand, the Jaguar Clubs membership in Florida are mostly older people with modern Jaguar, there are no mechanics willing or able to work in older 3.8 or 4.2 engines. Most owners of classics I know, do their own work.

Very odd.

 
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Old Dec 29, 2024 | 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by icsamerica
This is all part of a long arch of decline for Western Manufacturing. The Germans figured it out by successfully fostering a false narrative of mechanical / engineering superiority, that lasted for awhile now they rely on exclusivity, lifestyle and brand image (elitism) on a large scale. The Italians did the same on a much smaller scale albeit with some success and even more eliteism, this even spilled over to the secondary market with mechanically awful machines like the Countach finding a second life among the most garish of the neaveau rich. All that's fading and another day of reckoning is upon us. Jaguar is trying to do the eliteism thing about 10 years too late, it's a crowded field and the market place is shifting due to global economic realities with regard to the availability of workers, labor costs and material inflation. Same thing played out in the early 70's and seems like what is going on now rhymes. The rise of Korean and Chinese manufacturing rhymes with the efforts of Japan and I suspect it will all end the same way. Japan was using currency tactics and export manufacturing to drive their economy, it's ended up leading to a population bust and 30 years of economic stagnation. I suspect China and Korea are on the same path. Sadly the price for all this is paid for by middle class people in the west who love the cheap goods, but loose their job and their work ethic all at the same time. The loss of Jobs and work ethic both seem to come together for some reason and one causes the other. That's the price of globalization. Rich and poor and nary in between. This has all worked out better for us here in the USA where we have capital and some growth. The middle classes had to shift and find refuge in trucking, shipping and professional services. That's easier to do when you're just 350 million people, have friendly neighbors, hold the world greatest military while have a culture of invention, creativity and technological superiority. All this is not the case for Europe where capital flight to the USA may lower investment even more and lead to more economic stagnation and social unrest. The European union was a hedge against that for a while when it was officially launched in 1993. The 90' into the late 2000's ,were the heydays for German manufacturing and they really hit a stride with VAG becoming the worlds largest auto manufacturer closely followed by Stalantis and Mercedes-Benz. That's on the wane with the rise of Korean / Chinese manufacturing. All the while the Elite of Europe thrive and can invest overseas to maintain their elite status. How will that play out? The answer is crisis and instability.
This is a most pertinent comment. I would only add that Germany was gifted a huge captive market by two things the German government engineered:
  • the adoption of the Euro which gave it a huge price advantage because it so undervalued the Deutsche mark in the transition.
  • the system of inter-EU-government payments which almost nobody outside the system understands: legally the Euro is not, repeat not, a single currency, it is a collection of identically-named single country currencies with a independent clearing house on top (the European Central Bank) supervising fixed exchnage rates. ALL, repeat ALL inter-EU-country export and import trade-related currency debts are soaked up by the ECB and held in perpetuity rather than actaully settled by payments. Thus Germany, that exports over 50% of its goods to other EU countries is actually owed over 1 trillion euros (= about the same USD) by its customer countries. This debt (called Target 2 balances in the ECB accounts) remains unpaid in an ECB account that is officially designated as good debt, inspite of the fact the other countries cannot repay it. German companies are actually paid by their own German central bank that prints the money; justified by the mythical understanding that the printed money is backed by the unpayable Target 2 receiveable in the ECB's accounts!
  • In effect, Germany has provided vendor financing for its exports to other EU countries and has not and will not be paid for them in real money. These two factors have enabled and financed the German export boom, which for the reasons ICS America so clearly outlined, has ended. As for the 1 trilion Euro Target 2 debt Germany will never receive, the offical line is keep shtumm and hope it does not matter!
And further add that Europe is so over-regulated, and any spark of entrepreneurial activity faces such huge legal and bureaucratic roadblocks, that anyone with a good idea and a bit of go about them, goes elsewhere. Very sad indeed.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2025 | 09:59 AM
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Oliver, I also hail from Coventry. I worked at Humber Hillman before leaving for Ford. Coventry at that time, 1960's, was a centre of engineering excellence with a host of car manufacturers, Jaguar, Daimler, Standard , Triumph, Lee Frances, Armstrong Sidley etc also machine tool makers Alfred Herbert, Coventry Gauge and Tool, aircraft jet engines, Rolls Royce, even fabric from Courtaulds, Cash's, tyres from Dunlop. The list is almost endless. BUT, what remains.... very little.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2025 | 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexander Gurney
Oliver, I also hail from Coventry. I worked at Humber Hillman before leaving for Ford. Coventry at that time, 1960's, was a centre of engineering excellence with a host of car manufacturers, Jaguar, Daimler, Standard , Triumph, Lee Frances, Armstrong Sidley etc also machine tool makers Alfred Herbert, Coventry Gauge and Tool, aircraft jet engines, Rolls Royce, even fabric from Courtaulds, Cash's, tyres from Dunlop. The list is almost endless. BUT, what remains.... very little.
A tragedy, all those skills and knowhow gone for ever.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2025 | 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexander Gurney
Oliver, I also hail from Coventry. I worked at Humber Hillman before leaving for Ford. Coventry at that time, 1960's, was a centre of engineering excellence with a host of car manufacturers, Jaguar, Daimler, Standard , Triumph, Lee Frances, Armstrong Sidley etc also machine tool makers Alfred Herbert, Coventry Gauge and Tool, aircraft jet engines, Rolls Royce, even fabric from Courtaulds, Cash's, tyres from Dunlop. The list is almost endless. BUT, what remains.... very little.
Adding Alvis and the materiel industries to the list. The Jag 6 was put in a lot of military vehicles at that time too, Daimler Ferret had a Rolls Royce engine. I was just in Coventry in October, great transport museum there (not as good as Gaydon) but as you say little else going on except on outskirts where there are lots of smaller engineering, restoration and speciality businesses. It's been a huge University education mill city for a decade but that business seems to be dying now.

As a teenager I could easily find casual work just by cycling around the estates, I had a job one summer sweeping up wood chippings in a brown shop coat at a little place that was making wooden dashboards, drilling out and chamfering the holes for dials etc. Supplying Bristol and other manufacturers. Regular insults and swearing at me the long haired git. There was so much going on in the city, I've heard similar about Detroit. Germany appears to be in a terrible state of decline.

Wondering what all those western world supplier jobs will be replaced with. Turin Italy imported production line labor to the north from southern Italy, Coventry from Scotland and Ireland, Large areas of Germany were economically foundationed in transportation industries...

*Off topic but I have a 61 Hillman Minx, looking for a windscreen...
 

Last edited by olivermarks; Jan 3, 2025 at 04:16 PM.
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Old Jan 4, 2025 | 03:25 AM
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For many years I had an Alvis TD21 (5 speed ZF box, discs all round), superb car with fantastic service from Red Triangle (RIP mon ami Mr. Roland Simmons). Red triangle took over the car servicing business when the Factory stopped making cars in 1968. I had a clutch master and/or slave cylinder fail in Wimpole street in London's west end in 1977 at 2.00pm just before a meeting. One phone call to Red Triangle and they sent a kit down on the train which arrived at Euston station at 4pm. The RAC found a garage who towed the car and at 6.pm I was on the sleeper train to Scotland!

The Alvis Owner Club organised a visit to the Alvis works (post car making, in about late 1970s); very interesting to see a huge factory close up and be able to go through all the workshops. And have a pint in a HUGE factiory bar! Some examples of incredibly accurate lathe work, etc etc. The Saracen light tank was made there at the time and had a Jaguar 4.2 low compression engine in it that I saw being installed (painted green). They were also machining Rover 3.5 litre heads in great numbers for use in various Leyland vehicles such as the Range Rover and Rover SD1 or P6.

Huge devastating loss of industrial capacity that has only got worse throughout the western countries' economies. To the extent I fear for the western economies' ability to maintain their populations' living standards.
 

Last edited by Greg in France; Jan 4, 2025 at 03:27 AM.
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