My Jag has had starting issues since I bought it in December. I have now gone through 2 starters that are staying engaged and shorting out. I've read the Engine Will Not Crank Checklist and have performed the steps. Cleaning grounds and power distribution points on firewall etc.
The first starter was installed by an auto electric shop. It worked for about three weeks and then burned up. The second starter was installed by a different person. It worked for about 3 months and tested as shorted out.
I have publication S57 and found the following:

Starter relay had white/red and white/blue wires reversed. White/blue says not used. Could this reversal cause the problem?

Also found a blue wire poorly spliced in to the brown/black wire going to alternator. The blue wire was just laying in the engine compartment not connected to anything. The brown/black wire was hanging on by threads to the connector. Didn't even know I had an alternator light! Could this cause the problem?

Also found the green/brown wire from the climate control unit grounded on the compressor, the thermal limiter fell apart in my hands AND the black wire from the thermal limiter grounded underneath the headlamp fuse box. Could this cause trouble?

Sorry for the complex question.

I haven't installed a new starter until I figure out what effect these wiring discrepancies could have on my starting issue.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

 

No.

Notice in the diagram that although the two wires have separate terminals externally the two terminals are joined insude the relay




I don't see how it it could cause a starter problem. A charging problem, yes. But not starter







Gah! The green/brown carries 12 positive so if it was grounded the compressor fuse would blow.




It would blow the thermal limter



Offhand I don't see how any of them could cause a starter problem.

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks Doug. Your endless fount of knowledge from all the posts I read has been very helpful. Sorting all that out has left me with a couple more questions.

Could the charging problem cause a low battery to hang up the starter? The original symptom was a slow crank and then no crank. I had the battery tested more than once and each time it came back OK.

Could it be a bad ignition switch causing the starter to stay engaged and short out?

Thanks again!

I did disconnect all the incorrect wiring related to the climate control and bought a new thermal limiter and wiring harness for the compressor to be sorted later. And I've reterminated the alternator wire.

 

Hang up? You mean stay engaged? Is that what's been happening?

A low battery could cause a starter problem, I reckon. Repeated but not succesful starting attempts overheating the solenoid or somesuch. Or perhaps a poor connection at the starter creating excessive resistance and therefore excessive heat....melting something.

Since you've been through the cleaning-grounds-and-connections routine my first thought, actually, was that you simply got two dud starters....not unheard of. I'm assuming they were rebuilt starters? "Rebuilt" anythings (starters, alternators, a/c compressors, etc) are an iffy proposition these days. Over the last few years I've had multiple problems, even with name brand stuff.

Though probably not practical or even possible at this point it might be neat to open up the failed starters to see what the exact failure points were. This might well lead to the root cause of the failure....and if indeed the root cause was outside the starters themselves.





Possibly, yes. Ignition switch problems are fairly common as these cars age. If you have good dexterity skills the switch can be opened up for contact cleaning/repair. Worth a try before spending $$$ on a new one.



Glad to help if and when I can.

Cheers
DD

 

Cool;

Too bad you are on the other side of the country from me. I'd give you a used one that was working on my car just fine til it's engine blew. Iit cranked just fine in my shop as I tested and found 0 compression in all holes.

Yeah, I am with Doug, rebuilds nowadays could be anything from great to dud. some are not rebuilds at all, merely a reassembly of used parts that seem to be OK!!

Not that hard to do a rebuild on these rather simple motors on your bench. Brushes, bearing or bushings and clean and undercut the commutator and most will be just fine. A shorted armature or field is indeed possible, but not that prevalent.

Or, David Boger is just a couple of states up the road. I suspect he has a decent used unit at a reasonable price that would do just fine.

 

Yes. Staying engaged and the first time I could smell it. When I brought the second one into them this past Monday, the auto electric shop said the starters were both brand new, not rebuilt and cast great doubt on the idea that two starters could go bad. However, I just got off the phone with them and they said their supplier has been having problems with this particular starter. (Don't know the manufacturer). So it looks like I'll be getting the starter back tomorrow, rebuilt.

I will still take a look at the ignition switch. I actually have another one because I bought a complete steering column from someone on Craig's List since it was less money than anyone of the individual switches (hazard, turn signal, etc) I might need in the future.

None of these problems has dampened my enthusiasm for my Jaguar. If it were any other car I wouldn't even take the time or have any interest in getting to know it. Thanks to the people who are part of this forum I have tackled the water pump, belts, hoses, repaired window switches, fixed my sunroof, installed new fuel pump/filter, took all door cards off and reinstalled, rear seat out, etc. And thanks to David Boger for his great prices and having every part I've needed. I should have gone to him for the starter!
If my descriptions of my problems seem unsophisticated, I am a girl, so none of this is second nature to me. Thanks again and again!

 

Cool!!

 

It's been almost a year since I posted regarding my starter troubles. I've been occupied with life and have had another car to drive so sadly my cat was on jack stands for that long! The final insult was when a mockingbird (ironic!) started building a nest in my wheel well on my charcoal filter. Fortunately she abandoned the project.
So in a nutshell, I bought a new battery even though the other one was only two years old. I ordered a used starter from David Boger as several members suggested. I immediately saw the difference between the bendixes. The Lucas Jaguar starter has teeth and a shoulder that only allows it to throw so far. The other starters had teeth and no shoulder for the length of the throw which caused it to stay engaged and grind. Got it all hooked up a few weeks ago and it was a No Go! I was so disappointed until I remembered the guy working on it earlier this year had fried my starter relay. I ordered a new used one from David (everdayxj.com my hero!) installed it last night and voila! I know Jaguars don't like to sit, but bless her heart, every light, every window switch, sunroof came to life on command!
Thanks so much to everyone in this forum! You have helped so much. I know my challenges aren't over. The a/c still needs to be fixed, but for now I'll be content to roll all the windows down, open the sunroof and sing!
And of course put fresh gas in her tanks

 

Thanks so much for the update....
It's always good to know that all of these accumulated parts are being put to good use..
I appreciate the feedback!

Cheers,
David
Everyday XJ