What's the "bother" with converting to Propane?
With Propane there's no need for:
new expansion valve
new drier
new barrier hoses.
If you're sure the system is clean you don't even have to flush the oil, merely evacuate the system and put in Propane.

I *Know* this works because I've done it and drove the car another 100,000 miles, and the AC never missed a beat after that.
(';')

 

Resurrecting an old thread for some questions. After completing my interior I think I am going to do this work. My climate control is working (I can tell because it is cycling through all the modes properly, but the air does not come out cold. I know I have to check a number of easy things first (Thermal fuses, operation of the compressor), but assuming I need to do this; what car did you pull the modern condensor from? Hopefully save me the time from researching this.

 

I pulled my condenser from a Camaro, Can't remember the exact year. After installation on the jag I had to use some 2 inch foam to plug the gap on both sides of the condenser. Since then, It works well but every 3-4 months I lose about 4 ozs of freon.
I just purchased a case of Enviro-Safe which as per all who have used it, is better than R134a.
Will be evacuating my system at a friend's shop(don't want to add to global warming) and using the Enviro-Safe to see how much better it is.
The following info was posted on this forum a while ago.

"For those who install by weight: Jaguar XJ6 S3 A/C system: R 12 2.75 Lbs = 44 oz (42 to 46) One 6 oz can of ES-R134a replacement equals 16 oz of original R12, so 2.8 Cans will initially fill the system. Can be filled by pressure with a R134a pressure gauge. One example:
R-134a Ambient Temperature vs. Low Side pressure: ....80 F = 40 to 50 PSI
ES-R134a Ambient Temperature vs. Low Side pressure: 80 F = 32 to 42 PSI"

 

It works well but every 3-4 months I lose about 4 ozs of freon.

You will want to find and fix the leak when shop does the evacuation for you. They have all the leak detection equipment.

I have use this product, with two years between ES134A servicing.

Enviro-Safe Proseal Kit for 134a Auto Systems #9830

Stop Leak & Sealants

 

You need to use about 80% capacity of R134a in an R12 system. Overcharging will lose efficiency quickly.

I have no experience with other products except FREEZE 12.

I'll look into Enviro-Safe.

bob

 

Envirosafe is propane. It does not work better than R134a and is highly flammable. If you have a leak, you probably don't want to use it.

I could go on, but there's a billion other threads on the internet that talk it to death.

 

I am not trying to convince anyone about anything.
I have been trying to find the leak for over 2 years.
With some advice from other members on this forum, I have separately pressurized my condenser, evaporator, lines and fittings with up to 200 psi and the system held the pressure for days.
I replaced all of the hoses and seals. I have installed a rebuilt compressor and introduced dye into the system.
I have been to various AC shops and no leaks have been found.
Every 3-4 months I have to add about 4 ozs.
When the system is initially charged, the vent temperature is usually between 38 and 45 degrees depending on ambient temperature.
When the vent temperature gets to around 55 degrees, I know I need some refrigerant.
Prior to using the Envirosafe, I am looking for a shop that has Nitrogen to test the system.

However, here are some curious facts:

ENV5 12 Refrigerant has a rated Ignition Temperature (F>) of 1585°F

ENV INDUSTRIAL 12 Refrigerant has a rated Ignition Temperature (F>) of 1246°F and is labeled FLAMMABLE.

Note: all refrigerants are FLAMMABLE, including R22.

HFC-R134A - IS NOT labeled FLAMMABLE, but NOTE: it has a rated Ignition Temperature of 1390°F to 1436°F.

 

Looked at the AC yesterday in anticipation of the work. I can see that that 3 Pronged Thermal Protection Fuse is burned up. There's melt spots in the fuse plastic on two sides. I also took one of the R-12 caps off and pressed the Snyder Valve in to see if there was anything in there. I was hoping to hear just a hiss and that would let me know there was something in the system. No hiss.

This is good news in a way because I can charge this with some Envirosafe with Dye and find out where the leaks that caused the system to blow the Thermal Overheat fuse are.

 

Here's a curious fact for everyone. Go out to your back yard and turn your barbicue grill on.

Every year about this time, there's a bunch of people on forums trying to convince everyone else that propane is not flammable. It makes me wonder about how many cars on copart that are burnt to the ground were owned by f*cktards who put propane in their a/c system.

 

Um, I don't read Anyone here saying Propane isn't flammable. Not a single one. Of Course it's flammable.
But if it was as Dangerous as some believe, then Why do we see on nearly every public highway this time of year, Hundreds of campers mounted on pickup trucks with bottles of Propane sitting on the tailgate?
In this area they're almost as plentiful as Debris Removal Trucks from our numerous Forest Fires last year.

Nearly Every Recreational Vehicle carries Propane cook stove and refrigerator. Do we read about these things spontaneously bursting into flames? Not really. Sure, there's the odd occurrence, I personally know of one, but only one and that was caused by carelessness.

How much more Dangerous is it to ride around with 15 or 20 gallons of Gasoline just under the back seat?? And No One thinks for a Second about that! But mention 12 ounces of PROPANE?! and suddenly they comes unglued.

The five top causes of car fires are:
1. Fuel
2. Electrical
3. Exhaust
4. Petroleum based fluids, such as, Power Steering, Transmission, Differential, Brake fluids.
Car Fires: Causes, Prevention and What to Do by SVA Las Vegas
Refrigeration doesn't get a mention even through specific search.

Life is a calculated risk every time you get out of bed in the morning. But a risk most of us are willing to take.
(';')

 

Ahh, the what about argument? As if cars are not designed, built and crash tested without consideration for where the fuel tank is located. I'm sure that if your car burns down to the ground, you'll be the first person to tell your insurance company that you put propane in the A/C system so that they can deny your claim.

 

Just sit back and enjoy the ride. No one is asking you to put this stuff in your car.
PROPANE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you know, you also should not go to your local Ben and Jerrys Ice Cream Store.
Their refrigerant is hydrocarbon based and is ANZI approved
Coca Cola also use hydrocarbon refrigerants.

HFC-R134A - IS NOT "labeled" FLAMMABLE, but NOTE: it has a rated Ignition Temperature of 1390°F to 1436°F.
The R134a in your car is also flammable. That is what "rated ignition" mean.

 

I'll keep that in mind should I decide to crash into a Ben & Jerry's store

 

lol

 

@muttony:
There are 5 fuses in the AC system.
1 AC compressor thermal fuse…which you have tested.
2- inline fuse on right hand transmission tunnel… Power from Ranco thermostat to compressor.
3- inline fuse holder on left hand side transmission tunnel to amplifier
4- located in main fuse panel - left under dash panel
5- located in secondary fuse panel - right under dash

Just below the inlet and outlet connections on the A-6 compressor is a sensor held in place with a C-clip, with a wire connected to it. This is a thermally-operated switch that shorts to ground in the event that the refrigerant gets too low. The shorting causes a resistor within the thermal fuse assembly to heat up, which in turn causes the fuse to melt, disconnecting power to the clutch and disengaging the compressor. The thermal fuse assembly is readily available. The fuse is usually attached to a mounting hole on the compressor itself.
Charge the system, replace the thermal fuse or jump the green wire to power and see if the AC clutch engages.

 

Wait a minute......
As I mentioned in the link I gave above, the Number One Reason for car fires is FUEL.

IF my car burns to the ground, according to the link above, it will likely be a Gasoline fire if it burns at all. And if it's totaled, I will walk away and not look back as I have done before. I seriously doubt any insurance company will ask what refrigerant I was using.

And, FYI, my Jag does not yet have Propane refrigerant but still R-12; which makes Phosgene gas when burned as opposed to water and Co2 made by burning Propane, thus leaving behind, Nothing.
(';')

 

Hey Sanchez,

This is what I was thinking too. The Thermal Fuse is clearly burnt up. I can see it. Mine isn't attached to the compressor anymore and is zip tied next to some other wires. Easy to see. The system is clearly R12 because it still has the old style compressor connectors. If it was out of Freon, that means there was a leak. So I don't necessarily want to charge it up because I don't even know if I can find R12. I live in Massachusetts and the gov is pretty strict about that kind of thing. Even if I could, I think maybe applying Vacuum first and seeing if it holds is step 1. There may be a massive leak for all I know. Plus I haven't evacuated the system so I can't just throw R134a in it because of the incompatible oils.

I'm going to think on it a while, but I welcome your advice.

 

Look on craigslist if you want R12. If you think you have a leak, just remove the compressor and drain it of oil and flush the condenser and replace the o-rings and add the right PAG or ester oil. Then convert to R134a. It will work perfectly in MA.

 

Google is not all dome and gloom about Propane : Propane Limits of Flammability - The lower and upper limits of flammability are the percentages of propane that must be present in a propane/air mixture. If the mixture 10% propane and 90% air, combustion will not occur. If the mixture is 2% propane and 98% air, there will not be combustion. {an inch from a small leak, it will be to rich, several more inches and too lean}

Specific Gravity of Propane Gas - Propane is heavier than air and will seek the lowest space available. { a small leak will not stay in engine compartment, will flow out bottom of car in a noncombustible mixture.... there is always one in a million chance ... seems like a leaking fuel injector line at 40 PSI is a real problem }

Is the U.S. the first country to use Autogas (Propane)as a fuel option? No - relative to other places in the world, we have been slow to adopt Autogas. In some countries, like South Korea, Turkey, India, and Poland, more than 50 percent of vehicles run on Autogas (Propane).This is because from the mid-1980s through 2005, we had very low gasoline and diesel costs relative to other parts of the world.

Propane is often associated with explosions. Should drivers be nervous about using Autogas (Propane) in their cars because of safety concerns?

No. While that perception does exist, Autogas (Propane) has a better safety record than gasoline in accidents, as recorded in Europe and Asia (markets where Autogas has been used for a longer period of time).

 

That's right , and diesel is a great fuel for running heavy equipment, but I wouldn't fill a swimming pool with it. BECAUSE IT WOULD BE STUPID TO SUGGEST THAT BECAUSE ITS SAFE TO USE AS A FUEL, ITS SAFE TO SWIM IN

kinds of like using a fuel in an automotive AC system.

Guy, I'm not suggesting you should not use it, do what you like. Just don't go around suggesting that it's legal or safe to use on a public forum. It's neither.