Hi
I am stripping down my XJ12C. Now the time has come for the AC / heater unit but I dont get how its is mounted… As I understand it must be possible to remove as one complete unit?
The 2x top bolts inside + the 2x nuts from the fire wall (accessed from engine bay) are loosened. Water connections are removed. Still working on the gas lines but will get to that tomorrow...
The unit is still 100% stuck, I have looked as well as I can for more fixation points. What am I missing?

Thanks
Marcus

 

Hello, Marcus,

I tried removing the whole Matrix once, from a Series 3 in a wrecking yard, where one was required to pack every tool about half a mile from the front gate to the car.

I got about as far as you have, and I think I would have succeeded but for the windshield in the way (it was a Perfect S3 windshield and I didn't want to break it or take the time to remove it), blocking access to the cross-head screws through the sheet metal around the evaporator. They were embedded in a tar substance, which completely filled the cross heads making it impossible for me to remove them. As I remember there were about 12 of them but it's been 5 or 6 years so I might not be remembering totally correctly.
(';')

 

Hi
Do you think those small cross-head screws have to be removed to get the complete unit out?? They are really a pain to get out... Lost my nerves on them tonight,,, Will try again tomorrow =)
thanks
Marcus

 

I was quite sure at the time that the screws were the ONLY thing keeping the Matrix from falling out in my lap.
I agree, they are a Royal Pain!
I think this is why some say the factory started with the Matrix and built the car around it, slathering it with that tar sealant first.
(';')

 

If it is like the XJS they do. Take a pozi bit, like that used in an electric drill holder, place that in the screw head and use a 1/4 inch open-ended spanner to turn the screw, with your finger on the top of the bit to hold it into the screw.
There is a square hole in the firewall through which the evaporator valve will come, so you only need to remove the hoses from it, not the entire valve. Do not forget the water heater hoses! Also even when undone, the unit will need a bit of a shove to loosen it.

 

Finally got it out. Was no need to remove the cross-head screws. Only fixed with the 2x top bolts inside + the 2x nuts from the fire wall (accessed from engine bay). It was simply glued stuck due to old isolation mat… I took out the windscreen and used some gentle violence from the top and finally it gave up =)
(I anyway had to take out the windscreen)

 

"Gentle violence." I love it!
Congratulations!!
Only well stuck, eh? If only I had known....
(';')

 

Gentle violence for a gentlemans car… =)
My old Volvos I would have treated different...

 

Hi all,
heater and cooling systems are the bane of my life.
We look after our cars and are generally rewarded with high mileage. I think I have had more trouble with heaters than any other aspect of cars ( perhaps our XK8 computers are as troublesome). As cars get more complex the problems only grow in frequency, complexity and magnitude.
i looked at your photos and shuddered!
Are you wrecking the car or just giving it a major restoration. If so I am in awe
it does seem that cars are built around their heaters and they must be the hardest item to remove.
My HSE Rangey has faulty blend motors in it's climate control and I am dreading launching in to fix it.
Come to think of it any work under the dash is always awkward
regards
Al

 

I am disassembling all I can (everything except engine/gear box & front suspension) in the limited space available. Still not sure if I will scrape of the vinyl rood myself. Afterwards the rusty body will go to a jaguar specialist who can do the welding & paint job. The climate control unit is, as you wrote, somehow the centre of chaos… vacuum hoses, cabling, piping...
Luckily I have no plans to finish this project quick; My main interest is that of of a technician. I want to get how its supposed to work. And I must say, The Jag is in many ways more interesting than my previous old-timers (Volvo, MG, Mustang). Many weird solutions for problems nobody knew existed =) These cars must have been a nightmare for workshops back in the 70s...

 

Hi,
Very interesting. I too am just as interested in the engineering and technologies behind our cars, the social strata of whom they were sold too and the strategies that were used to appeal to potential buyers as I am the cars themselves
Jaguar is particularly interesting as they were building one of the world's greatest driving cars for a moderate cost, on a limited budget, in relatively small scale production ( in comparison to the motoring giants) while appealing to various social groups in a highly class conscious society.
In doing so they obviously allowed their talented designers great latitude in innovation and specification at the expense of rigorous attention to robustness and practicality. The result being the mixture of brilliance, flare, and beauty offset by a frustrating lack of quality control, depth of design, ease of maintenance and general frustrating lack of attention to detail behind their sleek walnut and leather facade. Our 'classic' Jags of course were also built in a time of great social change when improved component manufacture in theory was replacing the need for highly skilled assembly workers in a time of industrial relations flux and discontent.
To summarise, the purchaser of a new Jag might of had 'Pace, Space and Grace' but also owned a 'Triumph of Form Over Function' in a car with less build quality, less reliability and far higher maintenance costs than the small Japanese four cylinder that he bought for his wife as a shopping trolley.
It is interesting note that our Humber Imperial from the Sixties has far better construction quality and attention to detail once one looks behind the luxurious trims they both are specified. Of course the Rootes product is far more dowdy, less sporty and generally less appealing. The Rover P5 would also fall into this category.
I guess the Mercedes product is also an interesting counterpoint to the Jaguar design where engineering robustness and strict adherence to engineering protocol resulted in a high end car with less flare, more Teutonic flavour but probably far greater reliability ang longevity.
As I said previously, I'm in awe of your dedication to disassemble are car to that extent. If you succeed I'm sure it will be a far better car than left the factory all those years ago.
regards
Al

 

The automatic climate control is a wild and crazy thing; often the bane of our existence in the Jaguar world.

In fairness though, some perspective might be in order.

The system was introduced in 1974....meaning the design and development goes back a least a couple years earlier, perhaps more. At that period in time any and all of the 'automatic systems' were weird and complex. I very well remember, from the late 70s, the systems used on American cars in the 60s and early 70s were frustrating and complicated....properly understood and repaired by a relatively few number of technicians.

The difference, of course, is that the big USA companies had resources to develop newer, less complicated, easier-to-repair systems.

As for our old Jags in general, well, we love 'em for what they are, not for what they aren't. Over the years I've found much to be delighted about and, equally often, disappointments. Remaining philosophic is helpful. Perspective is everything. Remember, there is no such thing as an engineering flaw in our old Jags. What appears to be an engineering flaw is, in fact, just "an interesting design feature".

Over the many years I've had countless conversations about Jaguars with non-Jaguar owners in an effort to explain what 'it is' about Jaguars. It isn't that Jaguars are the 'best' car. It isn't about xx-technical aspect or xx-repairs. It's about how a Jaguar feels when you drive it down the road and how it makes you feel while driving it. There is a certain 'something' about them. Some people nod their heads in understanding. Others look at me as though I just landed from Mars. It's one of those things where either you 'get it' or you don't.

If there is one thing, perhaps the only thing, that Jaguar was best at , it is creating that certain "something", that Je ne sais quoi. If you feel it, you'll find the many shortcomings to be tolerable. If you don't, you won't.

Well, that how I feel about things, at least.

Cheers
DD

 

In recent years I've had opportunity to dabble with some older MBs and various light repairs. There's lots to be impressed with....and fewer disappointments. It's easy to see why many of the MB models were so expensive.

I'm also under the impression....no direct experience....that MB starting losing a lot of the 'robustness' in the 1990s. This may be due, at least in part, to market/consumer driven emphasis on electronic gadgetry....something that every manufacturer struggles to make reliable over the long haul, it seems

Cheers
DD

 

Incoragable and unrepentant Tomboy that I am, when I drive my Jaguar I feel like a Lady!
(';')

 

Doug,
What a wonderful perspective you have offered to us all. You have put into words the feelings we all need to share about these magical machines. If any car can do this - and mine does it for me, then they really are very special. I'm in love with mine (in a good way!)

 

After lengthy hiatus moving the Daimler into the workshop to continue restoration
Hi Doug and Ms LnrB
Loved your comments, Doug you captured my thoughts exactly.
LnrB: Whilst driving a Jaguar does not make me feel like a lady, quite to the contrary, it makes me feel like? Hmmm, saying I'm riding in a lady just doesn't sound appropriate, how about consorting with a lady
Al