Y'all must be getting sick of me!

I (and my girlfriend) noticed a slight girggling and poppy sounding LH exhaust pipe. Also, the reason why SHE noticed, the LH exhaust is producing a black dust with small chunks (made a stain on the driveway of her family ocean side home) not good - these is FUSSY people, lol... And more vapor (H2O?) than the other side. The other side is smoooth and nice - clear water drips.

I have some time during a sweet extended weekend and I started removing plugs in the LH side. They are recently replaced/new and all looked like they are firing nicely.

Removed the B6 plug and the plug end was COMPLETELY black and covered with black dust/crust/soot. Not good. I cleaned it, then tested it for spark out of the car. Whitish orange spark. When I started the car, plug OUT of B6, a good bit of black soot shoot out of the spark plugs hole.

Replaced the plug, started car and drove. Same bubbly sounding exhaust note once all warmed up (can't really tell when driving) removed it again... Not as bad but blackening.

Swapped the wire with six from the A bank. Same thing - the problem didn't follow the wire. I removed the distributor cap and cleaned it all up paying special attention to the B6 point. Didn't look unusual. I ordered a new plug from an local parts house and will put it in today.

Simple question. What else will cause this. Is exhaust making its way BACK into the cylinder? A faulty FInjector? Just a bum plug? I am happy to see that I could get a while new set of wires and a merelli distributor for just over 100bucks but would rather NOT? What should I do next?

 

Mmmmmm.

Since 2 4 6 Injectors fire as a group, not the loom, yet.

Dribbling Injector is more the issue.

I suggest (and what I do) is a heavy dose of Injector cleaner (the bottles state 1 bottle treats 60l) so 1 bottle for 20l fuel (you can do the maths for your measuring system. Then DRIVE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT, and take another bottle with you to pour in when you need fuel.

Sadly the V12 needs to run, hard and long, and city running is the killer mostly.

I know you be in NY, so not as easy as here. I do that, and then drive 200kms for lunch, then back home, never had one not sort itself out, V12 or 6 cyl.

That colour of the spark is a worry, but my knowledge of the Marelli requirements is low. The Lucas cars need a BLUE CRACKER of a spark, or they simply wont run as designed.

 

Ok! I hear you, Grant... Will do. I'll get the FI cleaner on my run for the plug,,, it's the hard driving that might be a problem. Very few open roads like that around here even up here in Connecticut on 95. Maybe I'll drop it into 2 and get the engine spinning. Not my usual. I'm a Sunday driver.

Here is the offending plug. Note,,, I cleaned this thing up x2 in as many days. Then, cleaned it just before I took this short drive and took this picture... Over fueling on this one cylinder??? The FI are new-ish reconns that I only installed last year!?!?!

shooot!!!!

 

Hi Jay

Sounds like an HT Lead problem on that Plug, can you find another HT lead from somewhere and give it a try?

After 'Grants' Fix of Blowing the Soot out, obviously not on Sunday!

 

Very​ well could ​​be. I swapped a plug wire to see if the problem would follow the wire, disappear or stop fouling the plug. All that resulted was the same plug looking like this after a very short time and the other plug with the wire in question kept burning cleanly.

I installed the new plug and the gurrrggling has stopped for the moment with a minUte change in sound and how she's driving BUT it's prolly a matter of time before this new plug gets gummed up. We'll see...

I DONT want to have to replace an INJECTOR. Already thinking about how I would approach that. I think (that's where I usually mess up) that it can be done with pulling too much apart since it's at the FAR end of the rail. I hope so.

 

Hi Jay

If the Injector is right at the Front, then you should be able to take it out, without removing the Fuel Rail

 

JJJ
Do NOT swap Ht leads randomly, the timing of the spark will be wrong.
Grant's advice dead right, also OB's change the HT lead. Also have a look at the dizzy post inside the cap that goes to B6.
Also bung in a new plug, duff ones DO happen!

 

Thanks Greg!, Grant and OB!

I placed a new plug. Time will tell on that. Right off things are better with it.

As far as HT lead... What are y'all talking about? Is an HT lead a spark plugs wire? It's length? I did swap wires but used a the A6 with a B6 spark plug wire - if length is the concern they are the same length, roughly... But now that that's being talked about I could prolly do a more careful job of getting wires according to length to each plug.

I did have a look at the B6 post in the cap and there was nothing worth noting. I carefully cleaned up each post and the upper insides of the cap female end. I may just get a replacement Merelli cap and some wires (I had a dream about this and in the dream things went wrong when I swapped the wires). Dreams are just dreams.

I don't want to drive all the way back home with a dead cylinder.

 

Hi Jay

What's in a Name 'Lol'

HT Lead is just another name for a Spark Plug Wire but HT sounds a bit more pro, like yeah! I know all about Cars and I can fix yours, 'So hold my Beer!'

Also the Length of the Spark Plug Wire (Doh!) I mean HT Lead isn't critical, as long as its long enough to comfortably fit that will be fine, so worry not and get yourself back to the Beach.....

Alex

 

JJJ
The normal battery voltage is 12 volts = low tension current. The distributor to spark plug wires carry around 25,000 volts (do not worry, almost no amps so no danger) = High Tension. Why the term is used is to distinguish the type of wire used, for normal 12 v looms, HT leads would be no good, and vice versa.
When you look at the electricity pylons marching across the land of the free, believe it or not they carry lower amps than your household plugs do; but they carry huge voltages, as in many tens of thousands, and in this case enough amps to fry you too!

 

OK, I be grumpy, tooth out, stitch in, now I got PAIN, damn I hate Dentists.

BUT, a fresh bottle af Jameson just arrived, look out world. Gotta appreciate a caring daughter, Pizza as well oops.

That spark plug is what I NEVER use in a V12. YES, I know it is what is specified, but it is what we old people call a "flat nose" spark plug, Very, very old technology.

I ONLY use NGK BPR6EF in any HE.

The "P" is for "Projected nose" technology, and moves the spark out of the casing of the plug INTO the "bang stuff", thus giving quicker ignition of said "bang stuff", and CLEANER RUNNING plugs, especially for drivers who wont, or cannot, driver the V12 as designed.

It WILL NOT hit the piston, if you doubt me, remove the cylinder head and do the measurements.

Those "flat nose" sparkers are fine for owners that run "hot and hard" as we once could in most countries, but slower limits, and our own need to drive long distances has changed in 30+ years, but we still luv our V12's, so we must get outside that box.

I strongly suggest a NEW set of HT leads, either OE spec, or similar, NOT some elcheapo of ?bay.

Mareli cap and rotors are getting VERY hard to find of any quality, so take care of the Genuine article as long as you can.

Get some "P" plugs, swap them out, you will notice a difference.,

 

Today it's like this!
But,,, new plugs ordered (I remember we talked about this, Grant. Thank ya!

Merelli stuff ain't so hard to get here on Rock Auto 😊

And Greg, thanks for the explanation!

Gone fishing!

 

I need to be stopped, lol

So, I pulled the new plug just ta SEE,

This is it compared to the other in spot 2 in the B bank.
Then, a shot of the new plug barely rubbed with my finger. The soot easily wiped right off. Wondering if it could just be covered with the residual soot that is still pushed up into the cavity of the cylinder head...? I haven't driven more than a couple of miles with the new plug...

I've spied a "new" recon fuel injector on Rock Auto,,, with a short hose included. Just hope (if I do need it) the hose would come the same length as the other 10, or 5 on that side. The 6th being the long hose that wouldn't matter.


New plug... Soot wipes off super easy to clean metal. None of these plugs are more than 2 months old.

 

The problem is not the plug, sadly. Changing the injector is a good plan. Have you renewed the HT lead?

 

I have not replaced the HT,,, but let ask a couple of questions...

Well, first a statement. I swapped the A6 sparkplug wire (HT wire???) to the B6 wire and, the problem stayed at B6...

So, renewing HT lead in this case,,, that means changing the sparkplug wire from the cap to that cylinder...? That's all?

 

Drive it!!!!! Drive it hard once it’s fully warmed up. Read your tachometer. Try to keep the revs up well over 4000 for an extended period of time. Yes that means holding it a lower gear on the freeway. It won’t hurt the motor. That motor is so stout
I assume you’ve put a good fuel injection cleaner in the tank.
What I suspect based on your pictures and description is an injector is failing to close properly because you’ve treated a race horse like a pony ride.

or you can spend a few hundred dollars to have a new set of injectors installed.

 

It does mean changing it, but as you have done that test, maybe not necessary. Personally I always change HT leads if over 5 years old.
Removing an injector is easy enough, bung in the Rockauto replacement and that should do it. When the old one comes out you could immerse it in a bath of pure injector cleaner for a few days, then click it a few times (must use the correct voltage which i do not know) and only literally touch the wire to it to click it, not hold the wire on it at all.
Then rig up some sort of pressurised cleaner feed with a garden sprayer or similar and click it again and see if it leaks still or not. If you do a search OB rigged up a superb injector cleaner thingy.

 

Hey Greg, Thank you. I think I missed this... Thanks too all who helped with positive input...

I will and was planning on testing the injector with a fuel pump IF I end up pulling it... It clicks like alllllllllll the others. Which doesn't mean it's not hung up and or leaking, I guess.

So I drove her back to NYC,,, did the drop down in lower gear for a spell and didn't like that so I stopped. Drive at around 70 or 80 home and she felt good. Still, when parked at idle the LH doesn't sound like the right. I removed the NEW plug once back in NYC and it didn't look NEARLY as bad as when I first removed it (I didn't get a picture) but still, blackened and fouled some.

I decided to get a new Standard Motor Parts distributor for Merelli cars from Rock,,, two new coils (United Motor Parts) and the single injector. I have a feeling I'll be sending the injector back once I replace the old coils and distributor.

I tested for spark during all this and the spark was orange yellow white. Also, the distributor is the one that came on the car as are the coils. I remembered THIS on my drive (which was SWEET btw top down with my girl down the parkways of upstate NY and Connecticut) that when if first got made the commitment to take this on, the guy (WackO) who sold it to me had just gotten in a different version of a v12 he had won on auction. In the trunk were a NEW set of spark plug wires and he gave them to me. At the time I ONLY changed the rotor as it was completely fried. Everything else was as WAS, so the cap and the coils are loóooooong overdue, anyways.

I don't intend on becoming an INDY driver because I own a 31yo sports car that I am just getting in the road after sitting for 12yrs... So folks who are telling me to drive it like a race car to fix problems need to chill out and have a drink,,, which I guess Grant is doing already, lolololololololol...

Anyways. I'll be reporting back once I solve this problem.

Did my oil and trans pan yesterday the GRANT way, BTW, and the low leaks seem to be (fingers crossed) all done. BUT,,, on my drive up a few days back I was SHOCKED to find a small puddle of motor oil in the V,,, down and around the stand, distributor and where the bellows WOULD be IF the old girl had Cruise Control...

Onwards and Upwards 😊

 

Jason,

My choice of words maybe interpreted differently up there.

Down here, we always give any car with issues like that, a good, hard drive, of about 1 -2 hours. Obviously we ensure there are no mechanical issues causing the complaint, and on the V12 that is sooo low, its the lack of use, and too careful driving that is the root cause 99% of the time.

This gets some real good operating heat into all the components, especially the oil. It takes a good hour of continuous driving to "boil away" the contaminates in the oil.

I am aware of the lockdown, and we all need to make the best of what we can.

The longer the drive at highwat speeds the better for that engine. Heavy doses of Injector cleaner, and just drive it.

Have the parts ready, just in case.

I have never replaced an Injector is ANY car, and I am not that special, they are a strong and robust item.

That oil in the "V" at the rear may be from the oil switches, very, very common. Simple enough to replace, and the switch on the side of that stand (the idiot light switch) is the 99% culprit.
Up the front, a guess, cam cover gaskets, oil filler cap seal, or blow back from elsewhere.maybe. Wash it down, and look around after an hours running.

My Inlaws just informed us that Las Vegas is open for business on June 4, sounds like a ROAD TRIP is coming up for you. HAHA.

 

Ahhhh, Grant Man, I was only messing around. Honestly.

I get the drive it hard idea. Mostly have only read about the Italian tuning approach and my previous comments weren't necessarily directed at you, or anyone for that mattah... Was just talking ****,,, hood vernacular.

Hmm. 4 and 6 cylinder cars seem a bit easier to drive hard with revs and such, but the XJS - it's heavy, more engine than I have EVER dealt with and turning is different and I'm not familiar ENOUGH with her drive, yet - what she will and won't do! But I will, slowly. I would have to say that before this 200+ mile short trip I have only put a collective (with lots of kinks I learned WHILE on the road) 100 to 200 miles on the car. I'll get to the speeding.

And yes, I think I have an oil leak exactly in the place(s) you mentioned. That or the little (but dangerous) pipe that comes off the back of the RH tappet head or cylinder head. I can't pin it down. The LH side little pipe and banjo I removed with some cursing and swearing about 6 months ago, replaced copper washers. Its dry dry. The RH side banjo and pipe is gummy and there is definitely oil under the little idiot sensor, and the other bell shaped sensor there. I plan on carefully undoing that stuff (if I get the nerve) when I dive into install coils, and distributor and God forbid, the FInjector. I hear the RH banjo can become a nightmare. On inspection UNDER the car, oil seems to come from everywhere and places that scare me. I fear the rear seals as oil SEEMS to drip out of what looks like an inspection plate on the bell housing? Nutts

I think I've read somewhere that changing coils and such destroy old ignition amplifiers??? Is this true?

I expect that the coils and distributor can and will do good things for the over all.

This is what I'm seeing out of the tail pipe on the LH side with sputtering and a a miss... Poor neighbor...

After 30 seconds of running at start up this AM.


The car behind me... Lol,,, I cleaned it up - I swear.