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JJJ
Put us out of our misery and change the injector! Changing the dizzy cap/rotor/HT leads will not hurt anything; leaving them working badly will damage lots of things.
JJJ
Put us out of our misery and change the injector! Changing the dizzy cap/rotor/HT leads will not hurt anything; leaving them working badly will damage lots of things.
You might try pulling the dist rotor out and looking underneath it. Sometimes they crack or there is a carbon track on the underside leading to the spark not reaching the HT lead and plug.
You might try pulling the dist rotor out and looking underneath it. Sometimes they crack or there is a carbon track on the underside leading to the spark not reaching the HT lead and plug.
Thanks Red... It's just the one sparker... If it were the the rotor, it would be effecting other plugs, I think.
While you’re in there oil the distributor. I kid you not. The advance mechanism in the distributor has no way of getting oil except down the center the way the factory designed it to get oil. Underneath the rotor there is a felt plug in the center. Squirt a little engine oil. Or some kind of lubricant .
I’m serious as a heart attack. It’s on the owners manual something like page 65 or so. They talk about at 60,000 miles but they assume you’re going to get there in a few years not decades later.
Here’s what’s gonna happen if you don’t. At some point the advance / retard Mechanism built into the distributor will seize. At that point the timing will be off. It will still start and seem to run OK. You really won’t feel anything unless you have a racers sensitive butt. Those 12 cylinders will still be smooth but the timing will be off.
You will most likely notice it as the engine is running hotter than normal.
Since it’s so hard to check the timing,( timing marks are on the bottom of the engine but the distributor is on the top) your mechanic with blame the radiator, water pump blown head gasket, etc. Before You go down that path, check that the advance mechanism is still working decades after it was built. It’s easy, take the distributor cap off, grab the rotor twist it against the springs. If it smoothly springs back you’re good, give it a few drops of oil and you’re good for another year or two.
While you’re in there oil the distributor. I kid you not. The advance mechanism in the distributor has no way of getting oil except down the center the way the factory designed it to get oil. Underneath the rotor there is a felt plug in the center. Squirt a little engine oil. Or some kind of lubricant .
I’m serious as a heart attack. It’s on the owners manual something like page 65 or so. They talk about at 60,000 miles but they assume you’re going to get there in a few years not decades later.
Here’s what’s gonna happen if you don’t. At some point the advance / retard Mechanism built into the distributor will seize. At that point the timing will be off. It will still start and seem to run OK. You really won’t feel anything unless you have a racers sensitive butt. Those 12 cylinders will still be smooth but the timing will be off.
You will most likely notice it as the engine is running hotter than normal.
Since it’s so hard to check the timing,( timing marks are on the bottom of the engine but the distributor is on the top) your mechanic with blame the radiator, water pump blown head gasket, etc. Before You go down that path, check that the advance mechanism is still working decades after it was built. It’s easy, take the distributor cap off, grab the rotor twist it against the springs. If it smoothly springs back you’re good, give it a few drops of oil and you’re good for another year or two.
Ok! I'm listening and will have it off (again) Inna couple of days... So now, my stupid question.
Mine is a 1990 Merelli ignition... Does the Merelli set up HAVE a timing advance of this sort? A spring loaded advance rotor set up?
Reasonable question. Short answer is yes. Any distributor will have advance retard mechanism.
Once the switch to computers that system is gone.
Ok. So I just read this...:MARELLI IGNITION: In this age of electronic wizardry, many modern cars have done away with the mechanical centrifugal and vacuum advance mechanisms and do the whole job with microprocessors. In some cars, the distributor is done away with altogether, and separate ignition coils are used instead.
Since Jaguar incorporated the Marelli ignition system in 1989, this is essentially the type of system used. There is no centrifugal or vacuum advance mechanism; the timing is all done electronically. However, rather than using lots of separate coils, the distributor was kept, using two coils and directing the spark conventionally. This distributor is clearly lacking many of the internal parts of the earlier models, since it no longer handles the timing functions. The rotor is actually two rotors in one, and the cap is two six-cylinder caps in one, so each coil is operated as though it is running a six-cylinder engine. The computer that handles the timing is located near the passenger's feet, and has a vacuum line to it.
Thanks Doug... Just read thru and checked out all the photos... But still, same question... Sorry.
No advance retard features, correct...? About the oiling.
Nuther question raised (for me)... Do I really need to cut or grind that post down? Silicon? I don't plan on neglecting plugs (they are new and I can change them in an hour), have a new distributor and coils coming, and my dizzy breather line is clear, although I have NEVER seen this filter talked about. I will chase that RH line down. The elbow off the AAV hose is new.
Since you have Marelli ignition you have nothing to oil and no internal advance/retard mechanisms inside the distributor. The Marelli ECU adjusts the timing via the black magic of electronics
If you had Lucas ignition you would find an oiler felt and you would have timing advance mechanisms inside the distributor....which often need attention or replacement.
Nuther question raised (for me)... Do I really need to cut or grind that post down? Silicon? I don't plan on neglecting plugs (they are new and I can change them in an hour), have a new distributor and coils coming, and my dizzy breather line is clear, although I have NEVER seen this filter talked about. I will chase that RH line down.
The silicone is so easy I see no reason to avoid it, personally. The cutting/grinding part? I'm not so sure. My Marelli experience is limited.
IMO.....
The reason the Marelli system has a bad reputation is that, for the longest time, darn few owners and hobbyists ever knew about the failure modes and symptoms. Neglect of an ignition system was never known to be the cause of engine fires; it wasn't on anyone's radar. And nobody knew that the root cause would come down to simple lack of servicing/maintenance. After all, Jaguar never mentions it in their manuals and, typically, a neglected system simply causes a misfire or hard starting or similar non-catastrophic symptom.
But, nowadays (and for some time now) the information is out there. It's well accepted that diligent inspections and servicing will, in most cases, prevent the fires and, what's more, we now know that sudden drop-off in power is the warning sign that must never be ignored.
Knowing what we know now I see no problem in owning a Marelli car, personally and no reason to view the cutting/grinding thing as a 'must do'.
Different style connectors and
Will this cause a problem? Different style plugs from old to new. Anyone have a name for this plug style and,,, can they be gotten with the more traditional plug style on one end and the pin style in the other? The RockAuto Merelli Dizzy
If it doesn't fit your Car I'd send it back and get one that does from British Parts
But is the Coil your Problem, as it could be the Loom as Greg was saying, as She seemed to be running ok until you stated moving the wires around the Air Con
If it doesn't fit your Car I'd send it back and get one that does from British Parts
But is the Coil your Problem, as it could be the Loom as Greg was saying, as She seemed to be running ok until you stated moving the wires around the Air Con
Haha, OB... I guess that's what I get for multiple post go'n on at the same time. I guess it's the life I'm living...
This is a thread for a different problem I encountered and solved-ish (actually I did) on my FIRST 100mile plus drive. It turned out to be a shot fuel injector in 6A. So, just because none of this had been done, I ordered the fuel injector (Greg convinced me of the problem) and the rotor, dizzy and coils, too. Just swapping them in.
The coils fit, it's just a different style HT plug (I think I like better) on the coil end of the short HT coil to dizzy lead.
The stalling problem, (I couldn't get a good picture of it) that I had on my 2nd EVER 100 + mile trip I think I solved too. We'll see. I found a partly melted CPS or Fly wheel position sensor wire under the car. Touching the exhaust just after the downpipe on the LH side. I just couldn't get in or under there far enough to take a good picture or see it clearly. We'll see.
Thanks Man! Really.
Last edited by JayJagJay; Jun 2, 2020 at 07:21 PM.
So I reached out to United Automotive Products and I can't believe... We talked a bit and the gentleman went to the RockAuto site and realized that they had been selling these coils marked as the part for Merelli replacements,,, not realizing that the pin/post style connection is not what the OE Merelli parts used. The more traditional barrel/cuff style with the contact on the outer circumference.
Anyways, the guy is making me up a new set of coil wires, custom, post style connection on the coil side and traditional style connection on the distributor side. Making them and shipping them, for FREE. I'll be doggone
One of my favorite parts (no pun intended) about working in these cars is all of the amazing interaction (this site included) I get to have with amazing and thoughtful people.
Just to add to my last post, the guy (Rick) that I talked to and straightened me out is the OWNER of the company... Amazing dude.
He went out and made the bits himself, packaged them, and sent them for free - overnight - with an apology note! Whaaaa? Unheard of. Got them from my shipping pick up spot today, installed them and DAMN! With the new plugs, cap and coils I have never heard or felt her run like this.
Still have to figure out that strange stall I experienced a few days back (I think it might be as simple as repairing the wire that looks melted on the bell CPS) and I'll be oft to the races again. I was just cruising around,,,, anyways.
A good day. I do wish the coil plugs were 8mm, tho. But hey.
What a great experience with these folks at United Motor Products... Pin/Post style connectors
Some snaps of the old OE real deal Merelli distributor... I think about 40 to 50k miles. I have no real accurate way to know my milage. I'd have to go back to my posts from 2yrs ago to see if I reported milage on the original odometer, which wasn't functioning at the time.
Anyways, it don't look right. Looks like arcing points all over the place to my untrained eye... Is that what all of those little dots are all over the place? Have a big old scuff on the outside too,,,
Don't even know how she was running with the bent over coil plug. JJJ,,, the crack pot mechanic...lol...
