Has anyone ever heard of or had experience of these items?
Team CJ system bronze

What I cannot understand is which surface of the bearing is meant to take the rotational movement, the outer or the inner. In the case of the hub carrier (lower wishbone outer fulcrum) if it is the outer surface, then the ally hub will wear If it is the inner surface of the bearing I would have thought the bronze will wear against the fulcrum pin?
For the inner fulcrum, the same thing applies, so what is the advantage of them?

 

Can't say as I actually see any advantage, and they are quite a bit more expensive than replacement bearings. I looks to me that it is a greased joint and the bronze rotates against the aluminium hub carrier. However, I don't see any seals, so I don't know what would keep water and dirt out of the greased joint and prevent it from becoming grinding paste.

 

100% agree. I am not tempted, believe me! I was just interested to know if anyone had experience of them.

 

I've disassembled many an IRS. I've noticed on 70's and 80's IRS' the needle bearings on the LFA's tend to flat spot and get notchy. The movement is so limited that just 3 or 4 small needles bear all the load. I dont think its dangerous or would matter much in daily driving but it's another item that needs to be maintained. I've not noticed this on mid 90's IRS with outboards, they've been improved in so many ways. Perhaps the materials, seals or grease was improved at some point. This is another reason I respect the late outboard IRS.

All that said the bronze set seems convenient and simple. Especially so if you have lost a few needles during disassembly and cleaning for a rebuild. If someone was rebuilding an IRS and needed a few new needles becasue of loss or wear I would suspect it wouldn't be easy to find them. I can also see how many guys who've put a Jag IRS in their hotrod might find this "kit" of replacement bushing appealing especially so if it was chromed or powder coated.. It's fewer parts and cleaner. Is it effective and durable?...I dont know but I'd consider a set if I was rebuilding an IRS becasue those needles can really slow ya' down.

 

Good point, bronze would be simple , and a shot of grease once yr , i doubt they would ever present a problem, so little movement!
i have seen some needles put little grooves in shaft, especially after water gets in!
But to each his own!

 

Hi Greg, yes Norm has used bronze bushes in-place of the needle rollers on all his cars for many years, it was originally his idea for the race cars.

I will be doing the upgrade on mine when the rear comes out to go back to the 2.88.

 

Warren
How do they work, exactly, please? Which surface take the movement, the out against the aluminium hub carrier, or the inner against the pin?
Does Norm do both ends of the wishbone?
Also, what are the wear characteristics of the fitment in service?
Greg

 

l havent seen these ones Greg, but the system is used a lot to upgrade 70s bike swing arm bushes. These have cut grease groves and over time the bushing is the sacrificial element if you will. They make these for the infamous Kawasaki H2 750cc triple two stroke of the 70s for example, which improves its handling, well, just about anything you do to a H2 improves its handling

Cheers AOI

 

Greg , do you think you are going to drive the car that much to wear the bushings!
could take 20+ yrs or more!
ron

 

All inner bushes are bronze. He didn't mention the outers, I'll ask next time I talk to him. The bronze is a tight fit and the fulcrum shaft rotates in the bush. He also drills a hole and machines a ring inside for grease.

They will never wear out.

 

I ordered these recently from CJ. Two were defective and did not fit inside the washers. The rep on phone treated me like **** so I am returning them. I have no use for ********.

 

Does anyone know of another source? CJs website says beware of imitations and I absolutely want to know who else has imitated them! I’m very interested!

 

I didn't do it, but when I was rebuilding my rear cage I was very tempted to take my calipers and find a bushing from the catalog that would fit. I get the reason for bearings but in my mind bushings would be the way to go.

 

I made some when I did my cage. The factory system has two outer rings with a shared inner ring. I kept the steel inner ring and made a set of outer rings. I made it a close sliding fit on the inner ring and copied whatever dimension the OD of the outer ring was. I have only driven the car after I did this, and not very far if I'm honest, but it seems to work.

 

Any photos, Gareth?

 

No, sorry. I didn’t take any pictures of the rear end rebuild.

 

I’m rebuilding my IRS right now. My focus was just the brakes, but cleaning and lubricating. I after reading about the IRS rebuilding process I really didn’t want to mess with bearings, shims and bushings. However, to get the brake disks off I had to pull the swing arms ( I was very careful with the axle shims). When you do that all the trailing arm washers just kind of fly out, but I figured out the three part seals and washers. I cleaned and inspected the needle bearings- they seemed fine so I lubricated them and have it all back together now. Hope I didn’t mess anything up, but Swing arm pivots smoothly. I can’t imagine why I would need bronze bushings.

 

In New England at least, the needle bearings rust from road salt and poor maintenance. Then they seize, and the shaft wears an oval hole into the bearing itself. When it gets bad enough you will feel the rear end twitch as the lower control arms move around the shaft in the oval hole. It will toss the car from the rear in a most disconcerting way! Theoretically the bronze bushes will never rust and this problem car be averted. But there’s no way in hell I’m ever buying anything from those a-holes at CJ again. Turkeys.

 

That makes a lot of sense. Sorry you had issues with CJ.

 

The whole area around the bottom of the differential was caked in oily sand. I don't really think this had gotten into the bearings before I took it apart, but it got in after and I had to do something...