Hi Guys

Thanks for all your Sympathy and good wishes, I really don't know what happened as the previous day She was running fine.

But the following day when I tried to Start her, there was a 'Banging Clattering Misfiring Sound' like Ice being crushed.

And to make matters worse, the last thing I saw was a pool of Oil forming right under the front of the Car.

So I'm wondering if a Timing Chain or something like that has come off and knocked a hole right through the Timing Chain Cover.

Do those Timing Chains consist of Three? Separate Chains or is it just One Triple Chain?

It was getting too dark to see last night and today I'm too scared to look for what I might find, although I'll have to 'Cowboy Up' and do it.

As for Changing the Engine or Putting New Heads on, I am no Mechanic and even taking the Engine out would be a bit beyond me.

Before I joined the Forum my mechanical knowledge was zero, where without help from Greg and Grant and you Guys, I wouldn't even have my Grey Car on the road.

That's due for an MOT next week and is another problem that I could do without.

And things were all going so well until about now......................!

 

I agree with Daim, I think you may not have a valve problem, but something else. Be certain what the problem is before deciding anything. That car is lovely, remain optimistic.
Greg

 

Hi Daim

You would take the Engine Out to change a Windscreen Wiper!

But I don't have your Mechanical Skill or the knowledge or even the time to do these things.

Either way it would cost me a fortune to fix it.

So it looks like I'll be left with one hell of a Parts Car!

Lots of pondering to do, I don't really want to go near it today and wishing I'd taken my own advice and bought a Fiat 500.

 

Mate, don't part it out yet. It is in too gooder condition to do it to. I would see if you can find a fault. Maybe pass it on to someone who can do the job. Would be a real shame to do that to a car with that lower mileage.

Oh, and oil out the front can be anything. Popped oil seal, cracked oil cooler hose. Check around the car to see if you can find where it came from. There will be some place it was from. Trust me Don't give it up yet!

 

I'm with Daim, don't part it out yet.

Come back to it in a few days and survey the situation, rule out everything and then when you have found the problem make a decision on how to approach it.

 

Hi Daim@Warrjon@Greg and others.

Daim

I've been retracing my Steps and you'll never guess what I did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I put the Mechanical Fan back on, I had to turn the Fan Boss round to get to the nut at the bottom.

Which was Anti Clockwise, if you were stood in Front of the Car facing the Windshield, so I put a Socket on the Adjuster Pulley (Nut) and started to turn it.

Daim: I guess that you're ahead of me now! but as I turned the Pulley, I could see the Crankshaft Move! OMG!

Not by much but it definitely did move a bit, maybe as much as 2mm

And right after your 'DIRE WARNING!' To never ever, never ever, ever, ever, turn the Engine the Wrong Way!

At which point I could see what was happening and slackened off the Adjuster on the Pulley.

TOTALLY STUPID!!!!!!! on my part but your dire warning didn't register with me at the time.

After I put the Fan on, I went to Start her up and heard a little 'Tink' 'Tink' sound as She turned on the Starter.

Which I didn't take any notice of at the time.

In spite of this noise which I half imagined I didn't really hear, She Started on the Button and seemed to be running well with no funny noises.

But Yesterday when I 'Tried to Start Her' it was a different Story.

As instead of a little 'Tink' 'Tink' Sound, there was a VERY LOUD Clattering noise with some detonation and a Sound like someone hitting an Anvil with a small hammer.

A bit like a Noisy Sewing Machine, with a Metallic Sound.

And though I've never heard a dropped Valve before, I can well imagine that it would sound like that.

So I think I've gone and really Frapped it up!

Trying to rebuild the Engine or even taking it out of the Car is way too far out of my Comfort Zone.

I'm not a Trained Mechanic and don't have skills like Daim and you other guys, or I would never have got myself in this mess in the first place.

Also I don't have the time and the money to fix it.

But I'm happy to do the Simple Stuff (Relatively Speaking) Spark Plugs/Injectors etc.

Just to keep it away from a Garage who may even know less than I do.

Typical Easter type Weather today, Rain/Wind/Hailstones.

So I haven't been anywhere near it, as I've got to get the Grey Car ready for Her MOT.

I'm lucky to have another one but my Best Car sounds really broken big time

Ideas Guys?

 

R.I.P. 'Cherry Blossom' April 25th 2017.

hAVE A BEER(or glass of your favorite need to relaxum)! (the Omega 13 )

then Go Looking for... a 6.0 that you can scoop up the engine (6.0) and transmission (4L80) 4 speed automatic...

if you get them as a package you might get a break on the price...
then you need a electronic shift module (that the cheapest part)


no need to do it yourself... I did not swap the engine in the wife's van when she called me on the phone and said "it says NO OIL PRESSURE" on the display... 1500 for some one else to do it...
(it has now become MY Van ) and she drives a new one with a full 160k mile bumper to bumper on it (man am I paying)

 

Hi Jonathan

When you're buying a Secondhand Engine, you don't really know what you're getting and there are not too many good ones about in the UK (I do not think)

So other than getting 'Daim on a Plane', I just don't know which way to jump at the moment.

 

I will be checking my tensioner WHILST the engine is out... Just to make sure it is okay. Just to make sure it didn't get any whack whilst doing the engine (always possible).

I personally think, OB, that a chain tensioner failure might be possible. It doesn't ALWAYS break but it can. It might just be the chain smacking into the front cover. If it has broken badly, then you might need some valves, but if you didn't floor it and left it on idle, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you were to make space in the front, you could probably get the tensioner done without removing the engine. You've had the radiator out, you've had quite a lot out. So I think it would be worth a try...

- remove the studs which hold the front cover on
- remove the valve covers
- set the engine up for TDC
- replace tensioner
- refit

That SHOULD be doable... But I am definately going to check my tensioner now. Whilst the engine is out, it is worth checking. And as I did my front oil seal, I think the crank turned a tad backwards. I'll see if I can borrow an endoscope and have a look around the front of the engine.

 

Hi Daim

Not just me then, if it can happen to you it can happen to anyone but obviously hope not.

When you have got yours apart, please can you put up some Pics, so I know what to do.

She was only running on Tick Over with just a couple of Short revs to around 3000rpm.

 

man, when I replaced my mechanical fan, that never occurred to me either!
I hope you can find a solution to get her back on the road.

 

I think under the circumstances you describe it's nearly impossible that you dropped a valve seat.

All may not be lost, take cheer and forget about it for a week.

 

OB, if I understand correctly, you haven't, as yet, actually looked under the bonnet. Is that true?

Maybe, just maybe, you don't have an internal engine problem at all. A belt may have come off, or a fan blade broken off, or some such *external* failure....which would make one helluva a racket .....and possibly cut an oil cooler hose?

Take a good around. It might not be as grim as you think.

We're rooting for you !


Cheers
DD

 

agree with Mac, can't see this would be valve seat, they are an interference fit in cylinder head, main cause of dropping seat is serious overheat of head leading to different expansion between alloy cylinder head and steel valve seat

I would also be surprised if Cam timing error could lead to bent valves, would have thought that massive shrouding on HE head would ensure adequate clearance between valves an piston.

seek advice from people with serious practical experience with V12 engine.

 

I've been thinking about this 'never turn the engine backwards or it will selfdestruct'-thing.

A car with manual gearbox will often be parked in gear instead of or as a supplement to using the handbrake. How often do we hear of exploded engines, which should happen every second time someone get a little push on the bumper on parking lots ? I would say never or at least really really seldom ?

I fully accept it's not a good idea to rotate the engine backwards, but that the engine should break if it moves 2 degrees backwards: I don't believe it.

Back to OB's engine: Something is clearly broken, but as many has stated: It might be external and not as bad as feared. Open the bonnet, look around. If nothing weird stick out of the engine: Try to turn it round by hand and see what happens. Forwards...
You will not be able to break it more than it's already broken now by hand, and you will be able to point out where any bad sounds comes from.

 

Have you tried pushing a car inn1st gear? Even a little knock whilst looking at the engine?

1st: the parking brake (P) won't allow any kind of motion through the tranny to the engine, as it looks the tranny and not the enginr.

2nd: in a manual tranny,mtry pushing the car forwards in R or 1st. It is impossible. The force required to spin an engine from dif to enginr is a lot higher than the force from engine to dif.

3rd: a little shove from behind is most commonly swallowed up by play in the drivetrain. Between wheel and splined drive shaft, between driveshaft and diff sprocket/cog. Between sprocket and crown. Between crown and pinion. Between pinion and propshaft U joint 1. Between U joint 1 and U joint 2. Between U joint 2 and tranny. Between the gears in the tranny and then sometime the engine. That can easily make up a few millimeters or even centimeters of play in total.

But that is why most people park with the hand brake or in lever position P. No connection between engine and wheels.

 

There are engines with less capacity and fewer cylinders than our V12s out there.

I have a Citroën 2CV for example. The perfect contradistinction of the Jaguar V12.
The engine will for sure rotate until one of the 2 cylinders starts its compression stroke if someone bumps into it. Of course the transmission ratio will work against it, but I can for example easily jumpstart it in second gear without helpers.
Engine friction is really low except from during compression, I can rotate it with one finger on the directly driven fan, but I guess we are moving OT now...

BR Leo

 

A 2CV isn't a car. It is a tin can with a generator in the front That is like saying a rowing boat is a container ship! JK

 

Hi That Guy

Its easier done than you think, a tiny turn on one of the Pulleys can mean a big turn on the Crankshaft.

So count yourself extremely lucky it never happened to you.

 

Hi Leo

I have to agree with Daim on this, as the V12 Engine is in a totally different League to that of a Normal Car.

Many Shops in the (UK) would not relish the prospect of having to work on one of these, and who knows may have never seen one of those before.

Unless I try and fix it myself, the Hourly rate for working on it would be Stratospheric, as would be taking it to a V12 Specialist.

We are probably talking Thousands rather than hundreds, which no doubt is one of the reasons why some Classic Car Enthusiasts.

Would rather buy something that is powered by a more Conventional Engine.