XJS ( X27 ) 1975 - 1996 3.6 4.0 5.3 6.0

Instrument Lights Not Always Showing

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Old Oct 10, 2020 | 10:28 PM
  #21  
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For working under the dash an LED flashlight similar to this one is very useful: https://www.costco.ca/cat-cob-led-po...100364459.html

I have one that is rechargable, that makes it very useful in the garage.
 
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Old Oct 10, 2020 | 11:46 PM
  #22  
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Wow. Thanks very much for that diagram, Jagboi. Very useful indeed. Now that I know precisely where to look, perhaps just removing the bottom next time will be enough. At any rate, I need to pick up a magnetic screwdriver and/or some proper screw putty or something--that will make opening the top a lot easier. That stretcher sounds useful, though I still have to have my head way down low.

I would have stuck my multimeter into the connector next to the ground wire and measured the resistance to a good ground - the metal steering column would work well, or the metal door handle. Ensure you had a circuit to ground. Then I would have run a jumper to pin 3 from ground and the sidelights should have come on.
So just to make sure I follow you:
1. Stick the multimeter probe into open pin 6 and ground it with the other end touching the exposed metal steering column, measuring ohms.
2. Use something like a paperclip, stick one end in pin 3 and the other end in pin 5 (ground). Or do you mean sticking something like the probe of the multimeter into pin 3 and the other probe touching the steering column?

As for the relays, my problem there, as I have found out, is that I don't actually know how to remove them. There's a blue box with a white collar thing, under which is a blue wires attachment thing. I think that the blue box should be the removable part, but gentle tugging did nothing and I don't want to use more force until I know if I'm trying to open it the right way.
 
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Old Oct 10, 2020 | 11:49 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi64
For working under the dash an LED flashlight similar to this one is very useful
What I was thinking would be good is one of those head-mounted hands-free things. Something on an elastic band, so I could position it over my mouth, say, if I wanted light coming from 'below'.

At any rate, I have to get some work done at the moment, but I do want to try to test like you told me soon.
 
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Old Oct 11, 2020 | 12:43 AM
  #24  
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This appears to be the mystery plug that I found. Unfortunately, JCP gives no indication of what it plugs into. It is clearly coming OUT of the bundle that leads to the big plug marked #10 (not sure what that plugs into either), so it looks like it might be designed for something in the steering column to plug into. Airbag? (Mine's pre-airbag, but perhaps they were already using airbag wiring harnesses).


 
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Old Oct 11, 2020 | 12:49 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Some Day, Some Day
Use something like a paperclip, stick one end in pin 3 and the other end in pin 5 (ground). Or do you mean sticking something like the probe of the multimeter into pin 3 and the other probe touching the steering column?.
Yes, with reservations
Turning the switch on connects the NR wire on pin 3 to ground on pin 5. So you could use a wire or paperclip to make contact between pin 3 and 5, this mimics the action of the switch, while removing the switch from the circuit. The meter isn't needed here, but you could use a single test lead simply as a piece of wire. If the lights come on, the problem is the switch. If they don't come on, then jumper pin 3 to a good chassis ground. If the lights come on the problem could be the switch or the black wire on pin 5 isn't making a good ground. To test the wire, I would switch the multi meter to ohms and test between pin 5 and chassis ground. It should be very close to zero ohms. You notice in your photos how there is a metal part in the connector housing the wire attaches to? Often you can wedge a test probe in there and that makes good contact without having to take the connector apart. It usually holds your probe in place too, leaving your hands free to move the other end.

Originally Posted by Some Day, Some Day
As for the relays, my problem there, as I have found out, is that I don't actually know how to remove them. There's a blue box with a white collar thing, under which is a blue wires attachment thing. I think that the blue box should be the removable part, but gentle tugging did nothing and I don't want to use more force until I know if I'm trying to open it the right way.
The relays are blade connectors, they simply pull straight out. Some may be tight, but it's just friction holding them in place. Google "Hella blue relay" to see what they look like.
 
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Old Oct 11, 2020 | 12:52 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Some Day, Some Day
This appears to be the mystery plug that I found. Unfortunately, JCP gives no indication of what it plugs into. It is clearly coming OUT of the bundle that leads to the big plug marked #10 (not sure what that plugs into either), so it looks like it might be designed for something in the steering column to plug into. Airbag? (Mine's pre-airbag, but perhaps they were already using airbag wiring harnesses).
My guess would be an immobilizer for some markets. The airbags in these cars are entirely mechanical, there are no wires to them or any electricity needed for operation.
 
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Old Oct 11, 2020 | 01:20 AM
  #27  
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Thanks for that writeup, Jagboi. I'm going to have to sort it out and make sure I know what gets stuck where and why.
1. Simply connecting pin 3 to pin 5 tests if the switch is bad.
2. Connecting pin 3 to a grounded piece of metal tests the ground wire on pin 5 (assuming Step 1 has shown the switch is not the issue).
3. Measure ohms and hope it's low as poss.

I also looked up Hella blue, and found some good pics. Just a straight pull up, with white collar also coming off. I think I can manage that. I should look at that first, come to think of it, based on (a) what Stuizzy mentioned, and (b) it being a hell of lot easier than dismantling the steering column again. At least clean the contacts....
 
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Old Oct 11, 2020 | 06:59 AM
  #28  
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The relays pull out, can a bit difficult to remove.

to test, just swap the sidelight one with one of the others that is known to work
 
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Old Oct 12, 2020 | 09:22 PM
  #29  
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I think I've got it!
I went out this morning and pulled the sidelights relay. As advised, it just needed a firm pull. The problem with my car is that two of the relays have their clips broken and so don't clip onto the holder, which means the PO used plastic ties to hold them all together, making it hard to get access to a good grip. (This is after I removed the ties.)


Yuck, that was gungy. This couldn't be good, I thought.

Nearly thirty years of gunge?

So I gave it a good clean with some 800-grit polishing sandpaper and contact cleaner.

From gunge to gleam....

Then I sprayed contact cleaner into the socket, and reinserted it. And...
Nothing.
Bugger.
So I followed Stuizzy's diagram, and swapped in the third-from-front, even though it wasn't quite the same. But it fitted. And still nothing. At least the car didn't explode.
So I pulled the front-most one, for the aux fan, which was just as mucky but clearly identical, gave it a good clean, and...
...the lights came on!

So I think the problem's pretty clear now. I need a new relay. At least they're not Hella-expensive, though I wish I'd known this before my last order from David Manners last month. Maybe they're available in Japan. I'll need to investigate.
EDIT: Would anything for 12V with four prongs and 30-85-86-87 work? Do I need to be careful about amps, and if so, what are they?

Thanks to everyone for all your help. Stuizzy, you were right about the relays. Jagboi, your efforts are also much appreciated, even if I don't appear to need to dive back into the steering column at the moment.

Oh, and it was a serious rush actually finding the problem myself (with caveats: I wouldn't have known where to start without these forum members) rather than having to rush to my usual garage. Yay! I did it myself! I thought happily, doing the traditional Victory Dance of the Cossack Highlander (it involves kilts and kicking. Best done in private).

I have discovered yet another problem, mind: my port (left) fog light is out....
 

Last edited by Some Day, Some Day; Oct 12, 2020 at 09:41 PM.
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Old Oct 13, 2020 | 12:25 AM
  #30  
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Any relay of the same type would work. Well done, SD, we'll make a mechanic of you yet!
 
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Old Oct 14, 2020 | 09:12 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Some Day, Some Day
I need a new relay. At least they're not Hella-expensive, though I wish I'd known this before my last order from David Manners last month. Maybe they're available in Japan. I'll need to investigate.
EDIT: Would anything for 12V with four prongs and 30-85-86-87 work? Do I need to be careful about amps, and if so, what are they?
Relays are pretty much standard. Almost anything with those pins that is normally open should work. A rating of between 30-40 amps is good. One thing you will see are either a resistor or a diode across the terminals to reducing arcing of the contacts. It doesn't really matter what you use.

You absolutely should be able to source one in Japan. An example of one made there is Panasonic Electric Works CB1AF-12V. Perhaps try an electronics supplier, not necessarily restricting yourself to automotive suppliers?
 
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Old Oct 14, 2020 | 10:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi64
Relays are pretty much standard. Almost anything with those pins that is normally open should work. A rating of between 30-40 amps is good. One thing you will see are either a resistor or a diode across the terminals to reducing arcing of the contacts. It doesn't really matter what you use.
You absolutely should be able to source one in Japan. An example of one made there is Panasonic Electric Works CB1AF-12V. Perhaps try an electronics supplier, not necessarily restricting yourself to automotive suppliers?
Thanks--very useful for future reference. I've actually already gone and ordered a set of two (used) from eBay. Postage is exactly the same price at the goods. Oh well. That will actually work, and give me a spare.
EDIT: There we go: just 699 yen from an internet site specialising in technical stuff I've used before. Plus shipping of course, but it would still be cheaper and faster.

Oh, and today, just to be temperamental, probably because she knows I've gone and ordered new parts, the relay's working today on all three times I tested it this morning. That's only because I ordered spares, of course....

My next task involves tracking down a washer fluid leak. A hose has probably split or a fitting got loose, because when I wash the windscreen, there's a tiny dribble from the nozzles and a Niagara from under the car, rear edge of the subframe.
 

Last edited by Some Day, Some Day; Oct 14, 2020 at 10:06 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2020 | 10:29 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Some Day, Some Day
My next task involves tracking down a washer fluid leak. A hose has probably split or a fitting got loose, because when I wash the windscreen, there's a tiny dribble from the nozzles and a Niagara from under the car, rear edge of the subframe.
That relay should be fine, and a good current rating - 40A.

Could be a hose, there are some Y fittings and a non return valve in there, and I have also seen the pumps themselves split. The pump goes into a rubber grommet that presses into the washer bottle. So if you ever need to remove a pump they usually snap into a recess in the bottle and then pull out of the grommet

Out of curiosity what do you use in the washer reservoir? Here is Canada we use a washer fluid that is based on methanol so it won't freeze down to -45C. When I was in England and asked for washer fluid they gave me a funny look and had never heard of it, they use water.
 

Last edited by Jagboi64; Oct 14, 2020 at 10:32 PM.
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Old Oct 14, 2020 | 10:40 PM
  #34  
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Yes, I hope to try to remove the right inner wheel arch cover and see if there's anything around the bottle that looks bad that might be dribbling from there, but anything that involves actually getting under the car will need a professional (lift), as I have no way of getting under. (I could buy a powerful jack and jack stands, but those jacks aren't small and my apartment is.... Coupled with my paranoia about lying under something that could kill me and is only supported by things I set up....)

I'm not sure exactly what's in the mix, but it's not plain water, that's for sure. Checking some typical ones online, they do have methanol in them, though I wouldn't say "based on" as it's only a modest percentage, and they also have surfactants and stuff to get rid of crap like bugs and oil. Also, looking at the instructions on the backs of the ones on Amazon, I now wonder if I've been using it all wrong--these say to dilute it, and I've been just dumping it in raw. I mean, it's cheap enough that the cost isn't an issue, but still.
 
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Old Oct 14, 2020 | 10:51 PM
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We actually have two common varieties - summer and winter. The summer is designed to remove bugs from the windshield, but doesn't offer freeze protection. The winter fluid is basically straight methanol so it will stay liquid in cold weather.
 
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