I had the opportunity to get a couple of my cars out and let them stretch their legs today, my 89 XJS V12 and my 98 XK8. This was supposed to be a shakedown run for the XK8 in advance of joining some of my old friends from my days in the Mitsubishi Starion/Chrysler Conquest owners club on the annual Mountain Lakes Drive.

My XK8 has a newly-freshened suspension up front, all new springs, Bilsteins and other bits, hence the reason for a shakedown run. My XJS last had some suspension work done probably 3-4 years ago, all factory-spec parts.

Today I got a chance to go up Alabama Highway 41 from Monroeville to Camden, a 37-mile run through the hills that are found below the official foothills level of the Appalachian chain. There's only a couple hundred feet of elevation change on this route but the road is anything but straight, with well-banked corners, some sweepers, some real tight stuff, etc. Best part is the road is hardly ever populated with cars and you can let 'em stretch a bit.

I took the XK8 through first, and while everything on that car is very tight, no rattles, I've long noticed the XK8 tends to want to rotate sort of "up and over," tilting toward its front wheels and away from the rears during hard cornering. It's predictable, and progressive, so it's not really a problem.

After finishing up, I still had daylight (biggest issue with running this road after dark isn't the car itself, it's whether you broadside a whitetail deer, because they're everywhere down here), so I decided to take the XJS through.

And I have to say, I actually prefer the older car.

Maybe it's the more analog driving experience (the traction control on the XK8 isn't obtrusive, but it's there). The XJS also feels like it's got more even weight distribution, which while not knowing the numbers, I find hard to believe given how beefy that 12-cylinder motor is. I noticed no "up and over" on entry in the XJS. I also noticed less see-sawing to manage understeer. The XJS seems to mimic my S3 XJ6 in that it has sort of a four-wheel drift mentality at the limit. Rather than the fronts digging in, I get to manage a slide-and-catch maneuver.

Strangely, I preferred the XJS's three-speed auto to the XK8's five-speed auto on this route. The XJS was able to play a wider range in its top gear and when a downshift was needed, the longer ratio meant I had a lot more power on demand. The XK8 seemed to hunt a bit for its happy place.

Now, when it's raining out, or when I'm driving in heavy city interstate traffic, there's no doubt the XK8 feels more modern, more secure and more agile. But out there today on a wide-open road, at sunset, with the windows down and room to run, I had much more fun in the older car.

I've got to figure out why I've got some clunking in the right front suspension that goes away once the car has warmed up a bit, and it needs fresh plugs and some other minor things, but I am forever amazed at how those old Jags, in particular, would have this floaty-feeling ride -- right up to the point that you needed to hustle around some curves, and suddenly they'd dig four claws in the ground and the attitude comes out. (I saw this is a trait of the older cars, but my wife's 99 XJ8 was this way as well.)

Most notably, after today, I believe we're going to take the older car up for the drive, not the newer XK.

Jess

 

Thank you for posting this interesting piece. I am so pleased someone else likes the GM400, which once sorted is, for me, a superb Grand Tourer's gearbox that really suits the V12 in the XJS.
Also totally agree with you about the ride/handling magic of this era's Jaguars.
I have a feeling that the XK8 feeling different is a CoG matter, statutory bumper heights, and so on, means the XK range is far taller than the XJS. All the same, really interesting comparison. Essentially modern cars seek to isolate and protect the driver(perhaps sensibly for modern conditions) and inevitably this must reduce that wonderful feeling of connection with the car, that you so well describe.
Greg

 

Thanks from me also.

The XJ-S is a car for the "driver" and city stuff is NOT where it is comfortabe.

Open highway, mountain twists, bring it on for an XJ-S.

These newer cars have lost the driver control, and all this electickery does what it does, and we just go for a ride.

I find this with our S Types, coming from many, many older Jags.

 

My X308 drives okay for a modern car. But I still prefered the drive the XJ-S offered. Just so much more refined.

 

I've had a similar experience. I prefer the older car's ride and handling however my newer performance car for comparison is a 90's BMW 7 series.

Newer car suspensions are a great compromise with considerations for ease of manufacturing, cargo space, ease of service and ease of entry for the passenger and driver.

The older car suspension was forged on the race track and performance was it's main goal. Then the car was designed around the suspension. The older suspension didn't have the benefit of modern performance tires too so it had to have perfect geometry to make the most of the tires available at the time.

Aston Martin used the XJS' suspension design virtually unchanged until 2007. At the time, Jeremy Clarkson did prefer the DB7 over the XK8 in a back to back test. The complaint was the DB7 was cramped. That's really saying something about a 40 year old suspension design.

This is an interesting exploration of the subject.
I've got an XJC with 450+ HP being pushed through it's complete XJS suspension. There are many performance upgrades that should greatly decrease comfort but they dont. A rear swaybar, bilstein shocks and ultra high performance tires. The handling is astonishing, yet the ride remains astonishingly compliant.

Now imagine that XJS with 400 less lbs over its front axle and 100 more HP. A driver's delight.

 

Btw. I'be got an XKR in treatment... I really don't like the way that rides. The engine is nice but the ride comfort isn't any way near comfort. It is like a board with 4 wheels and that is it. It corners flat but that comes with a lack of comfort and refinement... At least in my opinion.

You can tell that Jaguar were trying to position the XKR in the sports car segment rather than GT.

 

Like others I enjoy, no scratch that, LOVE taking out the XJS in nice weather and just going for a drive. I just bought a 2003 Vanden plas and enjoy it and the comfort along with the stares and looks I get in my small Nebraska town, but and a large BUT, I get more looks and stares when I have the XJS out, and love taking on a good long drive. it has comfort and handling IMO like no other. Should have her out of the garage this week, back brakes and shocks being down, and sometime this summer I plan on taking it on the Lincoln Highway (US 30) here in Nebraska

 

Hah, don't hate me for this, but I ultimately intend to swap mine out from a 5-speed manual. The GM400 is great if you're in the 45-65 range but anything above that and it seems to have the motor working too hard when it kicks down to second gear. I just happened to be in its sweet spot this week.

Jess

 

Jess
If only I was in that range!
Greg

 

I can imagine it. So, what's the heavy unnecessary stuff up front? A/C compressor (50lbs?) A/C hoses (10lbs?) A/C drier, condenser etc (20lbs?) Bumper and 5mph struts (70lbs?) Air Injection Compressor, rails etc (20lbs?) Replace Rad with Aluminum rad (-15lbs?), mech fan and old electric fan with new electrics (-10lbs?), Steel shroud with alum shroud (-5lbs?)

Thats 200 right there. Drop steel fenders and hood for fiberglass? Maybe another 30-40lbs? Lightweight wheels? Maybe another 40lbs?

I think then you'd be engineering some aluminum suspension components or some such awesome craziness. Still need to loose some pounds. Hmmm... Helium in the tires?

5-Speed could save a big hunk. Extractors exiting through short side pipes?

 

I think a lot of the problem with the XK8 and the XKR is the wheel size. The wheels are too big for the car, the smallest wheels you can get are the 18" wheels so I would recomend that. I figure the best way to get the XKR to handle really nice is to soften the suspension up a lot so it rides better isntead of jumping all over the road. Ditch CATS suspension and go with standard shocks, go with 18" wheels and refresh all the bushings with OEM rubber ones. I bet that would make a hell of a difference to 20" wheels and CATS shocks.

 

Actually the early xk8s had 17" wheels, but this is also a 5 year old thread so i wonder if the person even still has both lol

 

Like you, there's an XJS and an 308 in my garage. If I'm running errands, the 308 is car of choice. BUT, to "go for a drive" the XJS is the unquestioned choice. Evidence of this was just last week. We finally had a break in the heat wave and monsoon storms. Pulled the XJS out and put the top down for the first time in 3 months, cap and sunglasses on and off on the secondary roads around the outskirts of the PHX valley. AHHHH, the joy! Coupled with the thumbs-up and comments along the way, that was motoring as it was intended.