Just in Case you were wondering, if things couldn't get any worse

Just take a look at this!

Real Jaguar Enthusiasts, had better Look away Now!

 

Sadly, I dont thnk so a sinking tide lowers all boats. Porsche overall is a good analogure for this so is the Cadillac Escalade. This brand / model interest is high in these contemporary offierings which leads to the exploration and interest in genesis. This is not the case for Jag. The last time it was the F-type was new on the scene and made a bit of a splash but that's all gone now. Obviously things could change but they haven't for all electic car companies Lucid and Rivian which by all account make amazing vehicles but loose money on every car they sell.

Jag appears to be positioning themselves to be less western and more eastern. BMW now sells more cars in China than in the USA by a factor of 2. I'm sure Jaguar notices that. That's just something we'll have to accept. Woke culture plays well in comunist countries becasue thats where woke ideology emminates from. Jag also pledged to go all Electric, that's not playin out well in the USA as we have cheap oil and poor electric vehicle infrastructure. The opposite is true in China they have no meaningful oil resources and plenty of electric and charging infrastructure. Politically speaking this was a big missed oppertunity for the Biden admin the and the Secertary of Transportation, they've made very little progress on charging infrastructure. I've been all over this vast country over the last few years from LA to NYC and many points in between and have seen very little in the way of meaninful large scale EV charging.

We might not like what Jag is doign but it's not for us. Keep in mind Jag is owned by Tata Motor of India and China is India's largest trading partner by far so this Eastern realignment makes sence there. There was a push to bring India into the perview of the West with access to defense and western financial markets but that's not going well at all since Modi has embraced Putin. The War in Ukraine, like or or not is causing harder re-alignments and Jag's bow to the east is just the latest one.

Quite franky its shocking to me how little poeple understand about the world they live in. All the pearl clutching must be amusing to those in the East who are not burdened with Jag's legacy. There are 65 million people in the UK, many are appauled by Jag's realignment but that's looking backward. Tata is turning there back on the past and the west where they have failed recently and they are looking forward to introducing themselves to 1.4 billion potential electric car customers in China. Will it work? I dont know but what have they got to loose at this point?

 

If this forum had a dime contribution for every time someone posted this...

 

Hi icsamerica

Lots of good points there, its just a Shame the World has gone 'Woke' as much as it has, though all the same I'm hoping that 'Elon' may decide to buy the brand and maybe even discover a formulae for Eco Friendly Petrol

Hi Vee I'm with you on that, although there's not much we can do about it

 

My point is not that Jaguar have lost the plot - though I think that they have - it is that this campaign will not work and is actually out of date, as the tide has clearly turned against this androgenous sort of mid-sexual-spectrum imagery.

I have agreed with much of what ICSA has written, most particularly that Jaguar need to make and sell cars that people want to buy. Where I do disagree is with his view that these images will appeal to the Asian buyer; I believe that they will not.
Asian culture is small c conservative and very family orientated. In the main this Jaguar advertisement will serve to confirm their view of a decadent and artistically spent West, and be antithetical to the attractiveness of any consumer good associated with it.

What I do hope is that the new car will turn out to be a stunner. Let's see.

In the event that it is not a commercial success, I think that we will come to view the post war Jaguar years as a flowering of engineering, stylistic, commercial, production and design talent that produced wonderful cars at about half the price of their competition; but like many eras it ended. We are the lucky ones to have experienced such cars, even if it is over.

Now, if you want to see a damn good modern car ad, look at this:

Or as my old exam paper used to say, compare and contrast.

 

Market forces at work. I would not consider buying a contemporary Jag. Just don't do it for me. They look to be similar to all other vehicles in the same class. Take the badges off and it could be hard to tell what it is. A classic like the XJS? It's timeless.

 

What else happened when people stopped buying the " BEST BUGGIE WHIPS" ever made. The street shovel companies had to refine their product usage to new markets, they didn't switch to making horse tampons????
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/pr...worthy-woke-ad

 

And this too shows how out of touch Jaguar's people are. Compare and contrast the reactions:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/volvo-anti-jaguar

 

My Post from another Thread on this Forum:

Exuberant Modernism. Translation: DEI-Woke. Jaguar's latest ad is a textbook case of the disease. Meanwhile, the rest of modernized industry as a whole is fast retreating from the DEI silliness. As no less than Elon Musk recently asked ref the current ad: Where's the vehicle ? LOL I suspect the first sales of the "new" EV Jaguar to go to the Hollywood set. After that, it will follow the way of the rest of the current EV market. It's obvious the current ownership of Jaguar has little to no interest in it's heritage. I believe it was President Lincoln that once said: A Country with no regard for it's past, will have little future worth remembering.
In any case, it will be interesting to watch over the next 2-3 years. Meantime, I'll continue enjoying my 96 XJS as my second vehicle for the last 25 years.

 

So far every comment has a political tone to it.
EV ‘s should simply be a math and performance matter. So far no JAGUAR even approaches the speed and cornering of a TESLA
I’ve loved Jaguars since my first exposure to them back when I was 14. ( I’m 76 now)
Today I own 3 Jaguars an MGTD and a Tesla.
Until you’ve owned one you can’t believe how great they are.
They are affordable. Mine cost us $35,000 after discounts and rebates. My wife’s Honda used to cost me $4 to get to work & $4 to go back home
The TESLA costs me 73 cents to make the same trip.
They are becoming pretty common in my neighborhood mostly because they do things that Jaguars haven’t so far.
Unbelievable reliability. Even some as old as 2014. Have never been to the dealer. In fact nobody knew the delivery center where we got ours even existed.
No service ( well every 2 years you go in get the tires rotated, the cabin air filter replaced and the brake fluid replaced). Never need oil change or brake work. All that, tires, filter, brake fluid, only costs $140. My FordF150 Pickup has almost always cost $1000+ and that’s several times a year.
I got both the 110 volt plug in charger and the 240 volt wall charger.
For the last 6 months the little 110 volt wall outlet charger gets the car charged for all our needs. 8,000+ miles so far. 366 mile range is plenty. But if we went for a long trip ( and didn’t fly). 15 minutes of charging gets us 200 more miles of range. That’s barely long enough for my wife to go to the bathroom. TESLA’s present Chargers are 250 kilowatts but they are starting to get 500 Kilowatt chargers which will commonly be used for the Tesla EV SEMI truck ( that’s a 85,000 pound commercial truck) but can also be used with our car

 

My feeling is that for Jaguar "enthusiasts", the thrill is gone as they say. At least for future vehicles. I wonder if this will cause the F-Type to actually increase in value in a couple years ?

 

Jag is badly mismanaged and has been since they vocally rejected the Bertone B99 concept. I do stand by my Chinese market lean supposition. The colors are Red and Yellow are prominent in the ad and very significant in Chinese culture. Also Tata gets all their batteries from China as of now and China is a growth market for EV's. The USA is not until we get better charging infrastructure, It's also highly probable the tech is Chinese too.

https://insideevs.com/news/716318/ja...hery-platform/


How do your go broke selling this? Where was the follow up? Where was the F-type SUV ? Why didnt they fix the I-pace's problem and market it better. Jag has an execution problem that's not going away with a rebrand.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126661784933?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ahixEY9VTk6&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=7b1h0wZFQ3q&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

The Current Jag CEO is un-apologetic and is blaming 'intolerance' for the backlash. It has not dawned on him this rebrand was clumsy and poorly done. Some introspection would be helpful.

https://www.businessinsider.com/jagu...ke-car-2024-11

 

Have you even bothered to try a good EV. Like the Tesla? They have one now that will do 0-60 in 1.9 seconds!!!! Cornering? Fantastic. Low center of gravity( due to battery) gets you that. Nothing, I do mean nothing, corners as well.
Now I love the JAGUAR XKE. Such a beautiful car. It’s just not up to modern cars.
My XJS connects me to the past. But there are dozens of cars that are faster, more practical.

 

OMG..Freaking BRILLIANT this one is! Wow. This is a master class in ad and marketing for sure. (Granted, I think, for what it wants to do, Jaguar's Ad has been successful as well but no comparison to this.)

 

I'm not sure Zero hedge is a bastion of moderate and unbiased opinion.

The fact that this has become some sort of politco-Social debate and tirade shows how manipulatide so many have become...arguing over this as though it matters. Wasting precious hours in a day flame-warring for literally nothing
Politics is not life. This stuff isn't as important as a large subset of people think it is. It means nothing, it never has. The pendulum always swings both ways. Look at the most recent US results. We plebians have no ultimate control to change anything. The behemoth machine moves very slowly. I am 100% positive none of these senseless Internet arguments over any of this stuff affected. Any outcome in any election. All it is done is served drama, yet no one really ever has their minds changed. Even here, when we're supposed to be sharing common ground and interest, regardless of any other beliefs or history or background, there's arguments abound. Abound. It's because the general population has been manipulated Lock stock and barrel by the government by way of media. Nevertheless, this was done on purpose. A House divided cannot stand. A house divided cannot stand against an elite establishment. That's what the real issue is.

 

I get what you are saying but the rub is that the infrastructure isn't there yet, except, ironically in areas where mass transit exists. My "neighborhood" is just me. From my farm any direction, closest neighborhood is maybe 2 miles. And I am not in the minority in the US. That majority of landmass is till rural. I went to the closest big(ER) City yesterday and there are a pretty significant number of EVs. As it so happens, ironically, I was behind a Cyber truck, quite a cool looking one at that, had a gold wrap. Light changed..didn't go. Then hazards came in. He was turning into one of the only charging stations on that side of the city and we were in the worst traffic area around. Ran out of power. Was a nightmare. And delayed me an hour and a half to my destination because I couldn't move. Took forever for the rollback to come around to get him and take him like 300ft. to the charger. I sent my brother a pic of it and told him what happened. He happens to own a tow company and his response "happens all the time". He said at least 1 to 2 calls a day on average are an EV unable to make it to a charge. My point is that regardless of how fun, reliable, and all the praise you piled on, this is what people see. This is what they remember. Sure, people run out of gas too. Fair point, this just hits different because of the lack of infrastructure.

And maybe they are cheap at this point, but wait till that battery needs to be replaced. So it's not fair, I don't think, to compare maintenance costs of an ICE without including that 10 year bomb.

That being said. I am a libertarian and don't have a problem whatsoever with what a guy wants to drive , including EVs. I have no problem with them, but they just aren't for me, outside of the main complaints folks have about them. The reason I won't buy one is because of cost. I cannot bring myself to spend that kind of money on any car, ever. Not even 35k. I have 3 Jaguars, an F-250, a MINI, and a FIAT and don't think I spent $35k on the lot of them. But I realize that is just me.

EVs are fun. Let's face it, they are infants when it comes to tech. I 100% do not agree they are the future fuel though. I'd like to see a move away from fossil fuels because it's unsustainable forever. However, I see EVs as more of a toy more than anything. And that's totally fine. Shoot, id for sure drive whatever Jag comes out with next, but only if they give it to me 😂. So, conclusion, I won't ever drive one bc that won't happen. Though, I still do like the iPace. I like it because its look mostly like a regular SUV..just electric. Not some no dial having, massive TV console touch screen bill.

 

I like this discussion. Thank you for being so frank.
You are exactly who needs an EV. ( make it a good one and you will agree soon after you bring it home)

The inner city people with good public transport are already taken care of and really an EV Can’t be charged at an Apartment. YET !!!
Public chargers tend to be slow and poorly maintained in inner cities. Plus it more than doubles the cost of owning an EV (still massively less expensive than a gasoline car)
As for a farm? Or rural property? What a wonderful place to own an EV.
First you won’t need a dealer. No work to be done other than wash it and fill the windshield washer fluid. ( well, rotate the tires and replace the cabin air filter every 2 years. Nope, no oil changes or any fluid to check or change.
Battery life of a typical modern LFP battery lasts about 350,000-500,000 miles. ( there is a guy in Germany who owns an early TESLA with 1 million 200, 000 miles on it and he just started on his 3rd battery. Plenty of owners are already at 350,000-400,000 miles with 60% of battery life left.

The myth of short battery life started with the early NISSAN LEAF. 40-60,000. Miles if you were lucky. But the early ones would only go 33 miles before needing a recharge. ( a basic EV goes 250+ miles with the extended range 350+ miles)

A farm or rural home can put up solar panels.
DIY. It and reasonably simple ( now) and even with a big back up battery spend only about $10,000. 30% of that is federally rebated and your local state and power company’s are also offering rebates. ( instead of making electric payments you pay for the solar panels etc).
While that sounds expensive it will provide you with around $70,000 - $100,000 worth of electricity ( I pay 14.57 cents per kilowatt hour).
Not only will it provide lights etc. it will give you “free” fuel for your transportation.

Here in the city. The average person travels 12,000 miles a year. That works out to be 33 miles per day. Let’s say you spend 4 hours a day driving at 60mph That’s 240 miles per day. Or87,000 miles per year.
Plug it in when you get home and by 4:00am it will be fully charged. Free from sunlight. ( that’s the reason for the back up battery, once the sun goes down).

OK you won’t see the public charging stations. Nobody works there, you just plug you vehicle in and in 15 minutes you get another 200 miles of range. Nope no credit card required they just subtract the cost from your account automatically. ( At least theTESLA superchargers).
The newest super chargers have gone from the old 250 kilowatt rate to the new 500 kilowatt rate. So charging will be even faster in the future.
That’s so the new Tesla EV SEMIs can charge fast enough to get their 1000 mile per day rate.
Nation wide there are 146,000 gas stations. There are 195,000 EV chargers.
The way you find them is when you push navigate on the screen you enter your destination it will show you the fastest route or whatever you want it will also show you choices of where to charge,
how to get there
The rate of the chargers
how many are in use.
How much time you’ll have to spend to get to your next charger.
It takes about the same amount of time to drive across country in an EV as a gasoline car. 48 hours from Miami to LA + or - traffic.

SORRY POLITICAL. Aspect
​​​​​​ ELON MUSK (owner of TESLA) the guy who helped TRUMP GET ELECTED. Is going to be the new government Efficiency expert. He’s projecting he can save 2-3 trillion dollars a year.
He wants to stop all federal rebates on EV’s and solar panels. He also wants to eliminate oil depletion allowance. So gas and diesel will get a lot more expensive.
If you want to save about $15-30,000* buy your EV and solar panels before January or whenever Trump signs those into law.
* Colorado Washington and California offer an additional $7500 discount on new EV’s

So you like used cars? You’ll love used EV’s they depreciate like crazy. Not because they wear out or cause trouble ( they are insanely simple) but because in the last decade-new ones are almost $90,000 cheaper than originals.
Avis? Rentals are selling 2 year old TESLA’s as low as $14,000 don’t forget you still get a $4000 rebate on used EV’s

Regarding Jaguar EV’s. (Remember I own 3 Jaguars ). I sure hope they are better than the I Pace. I hear a lot of maintenance issues with those ( but they really aren’t Jaguars. They are made for Jaguar in Austria?)

Oh, I should mention that I’m on the western edge of the Urban area. Everything west of us is farm land.

 

Whilst the majority of the US landmass is rural, its population skews heavily to metro and suburban - I believe I have read around 50M is the rural population.

We are in a rural area and ran an EV with ~100 mile range as our only vehicle for several years - it matched our use case for that period. The charging infrastructure today, within 50 miles of us, is immeasurably better than it was back in 2017 when we bought our EV. We mostly charge overnight at home on a reduced rate tariff.
These vehicles are extremely cheap to run, but I am concerned about the cost of an eventual pack replacement out of warranty (we have had one replacement on our Soul EV) and how the packs will eventually be recycled / materials recovered.

We did eventually buy an ICE (in addition to our XJS) - we needed that due to a change in my wife's work; we have since got into a ~250 mile range EV, so may get rid of the ICE.

All that to say, people I think should pick a vehicle based on their needs and aligned to their view on climate change - be that an ICE, hybrid, EV, whatever.

 

Good points. Regarding Climate change. Let’s not limit it to climate. Let’s include anyone who needs to save money.
EV’s are really cheap to buy and own now.
Cheaper by far than gasoline cars.
AVIS. Is selling 30,000 2 year old Tesla’s for as cheap as $14,000. ( don’t forget used EV’s get a $4000 federal rebate off the price at the dealership)

 

I completely agree - the Soul EV we leased back in '17 was a screaming deal; it was a compliance vehicle (New York) with aggressive discounts. We will probably sell it on shortly - it has 62K and a 1 year old traction battery - and I would expect, after the 30% government POS credit, for the new owner to end up paying maybe $5K for a car that's cheap as chips to run and is warrantied for another 38K miles.
We recently leased a Niro EV - '23 run-out model - and that was also a great deal.